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  1. #1

    OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting



    Has anyone else looked at the ESPN front page coverage of the Michael Vick saga?


    I'm really starting to get sick of the coverage, but not as much as I'm getting sick of my people, i.e. black people trying to defend dogfighting.


    Listening to Michael Smith of ESPN.com, or Emmitt Smith, or the 2 "brothers" in Atlanta who have their radio show, you would almost think that dogfighting is a quite normal social activity, as is brutally killing the losing animal using electrocution, drowning, beating to death, etc


    Its starting to bother me, particularly because I'm black and it seems there are way too many black athletes, reporters, and celebrities out there, let alone regular people, ready to defend dogfighting.


    Is anyone else bothered by this?


    Its like I can't seem to find an intelligent opinion voiced on this anywhere within the NFL, except maybe by outside the lines.




  2. #2

    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Excellent post.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  3. #3
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    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Dogfighting is being defended by blacks because Vick is black.

    If this was a crime with a set of iffy circumstances I'm sure the supporters and detractors of Vick would be roughly based along racial lines a-la the OJ fiasco.

    However, in Vick's case, 99.9% of the population (white and black) think he did it, so since he is up to his neck in trouble, the only way for his supporters to mitigate the crime is to pretend it isn't really that big a deal.

    My opinion of course.
    Admin Steve
    Screwing up Ravens message boards since 1999.




  4. #4

    Wink Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    I would agree with you, Dave, if Vick were being accused of a more serious crime. But some (especially media) are making out dog fighting to be like mass murder. It's not. Dogs are animals, and many humans mercilessly kill main and kill thousands of animals daily. I don't buy into the rationalizations some are giving about hunting for sport is OK while dog fighting for sport is not, or that it's OK to toss live chickens into scalding water because they are being processed for food.

    I have no use for race-baiters who twist and spin. Sharpton and Jackson, particularly. And screw the media for rushing to its typical "politically correct" judgment: Nifong turns out to be the only criminal in the Duke rape case. I don't buy into the whitey conspiracy theorists, and laugh at anyone who sings that tune, but I don't have a problem with the NAACP requesting that Vick not be pre-judged.

    This is one case that I am afraid will wind up being an over reaction (I expect to see Vick get a jail term and a major ban -- possibly lifetime -- from the NFL). If Vick broke gambling regulations, he should be dealt with appropriately by the NFL. But no Pete Rose over-reactions, please.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  5. #5
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    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I would agree with you, Dave, if Vick were being accused of a more serious crime. But some (especially media) are making out dog fighting to be like mass murder. It's not. Dogs are animals, and many humans mercilessly kill main and kill thousands of animals daily. I don't buy into the rationalizations some are giving about hunting for sport is OK while dog fighting for sport is not, or that it's OK to toss live chickens into scalding water because they are being processed for food.
    I was unaware that most sport hunters hung, electrocuted or slammed their prey into the ground until they died. And please show me a link where Perdue chicken and similar large manufacturers kill the chickens by throwing them into scalding water. Don't you think PETA would be out there protesting every day if this was public knowledge?

    Sorry, but what Vick did is reprehensible. No, it's not murder, but that's why Vick is only facing 6 years in prison and not life.

    Dave, I completely understand where you are coming from. I find it strange how whenever a black celebrity is accused of anything bad, it seems that all of black America rallies behind them and cries racism.




  6. #6

    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Thing is, Mr. T, the law is the law. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.


    We can argue about the metaphysics of the universe and how cruelty to animals fits into the great scheme of things, but this isn't the argument here.


    The problem is people defending dog fighting when it is an illegal operation, and continuing to do so despite knowledge of the law and increasing knowledge that Vick is guilty.


    If it were me, average joe schmoe, or any of Vick's friends, we'd be hung out to dry. But because Vick is a black celebrity, you have every idiot who is black trying to figure out a way to defend him. Same goes for OJ and how he got off.


    Its disgusting.


    I understand defending due process. But other than that, can we stop defending dog fighting?


    It becomes absurd. If it were a case of intelligent civil disobedience in the mold of Henry David Thoreau, then i'd have some more love. But in this case, Vick was being plain stupid, egotistical, and was breaking the law. He's a victim of his own hubris. Can people just admit that?




  7. #7

    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    I understand defending due process. But other than that, can we stop defending dog fighting?
    Amen!

    Inhumanity anywhere is inhumanity everywhere.

    T, the fact that chickens are -and I agree - wrongly and improperly handled in the processing of food around the world doesn't justify, mitigate, or lessen the severity of cold-blooded murder and torture of a different animal species - in this case, dogs.

    How can you be as outraged as you are by the fashion in which chickens are handled in this country - so much so that you've stopped eating it - yet you don't picket against Vick, or even equate the two in the way you refer to them. Public anti-Vick, anti-dogfighting sentiment is over-reaction, yet your response to the handling of chicken is not? Explain? Are chickens a higher form of life than dogs? Than humans? I'm certainly not in a position to make that judgment.

    Vick, and others that participate in dog-fighting, are cold-blooded killers, whether or not it involves humans. And if the poultry industry sponsors, condones, or overlooks cruelty to chickens they process, they should be punished and publicly scolded at the same volume as Vick currently is.

    The only reason I can understand you considering this over-reaction is because of the sheer mass of attention it gets, largely thanks to Vick's public status. We ARE talking about a player that once was (and perhaps still is) the highest paid player in the country's most popular sport, a former #1 overall pick, being accused of some of the most inhumane acts a person can perpetrate, regardless of the victim.

    Due-process? Sure. I personally and desperately hope that Vick is rightfully acquitted, for the sake of the league and all that is right in the world. But defense of dog-fighting or even attempting to dull it's abhorrence, is questionable at best. And I'm not even particularly fond of most dogs.




  8. #8

    Wink Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    How can you be as outraged as you are by the fashion in which chickens are handled in this country - so much so that you've stopped eating it - yet you don't picket against Vick, or even equate the two in the way you refer to them. Public anti-Vick, anti-dogfighting sentiment is over-reaction, yet your response to the handling of chicken is not? Explain?
    Who said I was outraged? I could care less about processing of chickens -- or dog-fighting. Sure, everything else being equal, I would rather not see any cruety to animals. Just like I'd rather see world peace, no pollution, no poverty, and a chicken in every pot [that's a pun, btw.]. But in the real world, it's not going to happen. Dog fights,cock fights, and other forms of sport involving cruelty to animals happen repeatedly all over the world, without any notoriety.

    My point is the severity of public reaction and attention. If 9/11 gets a 100 of 100, Vick's dog-fighting (and chicken processing) should get less than a one. Yet here we have US judges finding ways to release terrorists from Guantanamo, our country is being overrun by illegal immigrants partially due to lack of resources to stop them, meanwhile the Justice Department expends resources on dog-fights in Vick's backyard in Virginia. Something is wrong with that picture.

    btw: I stopped eating chicken and other meats years ago strictly for health reasons -- absolutely nothing to do with how the meat is processed. If the doctors told me tomorrow that animal fat was good for me, I'd be first in line at Boog Powell's.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    And if the poultry industry sponsors, condones, or overlooks cruelty to chickens they process, they should be punished and publicly scolded at the same volume as Vick currently is.
    It's never, ever going to happen. Hunters will justify what they do as a good sport. Chicken eaters will turn their heads aside and say that, somehow, cruelty to chickens is different than cruelty to dogs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Losac View Post
    please show me a link where Perdue chicken and similar large manufacturers kill the chickens by throwing them into scalding water.
    OK, Losac -- it was originally posted in the Vick thread:

    http://www.cok.net/camp/inv/perdue/press.php

    and

    http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hor/

    and

    http://www.chooseveg.com/chickens-turkeys.asp

    According to USDA statistics, millions of birds every year have their bodies submerged in scalding hot water (about 143 F) while they are fully conscious.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  9. #9

    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Dog fights,cock fights, and other forms of sport involving cruelty to animals happen repeatedly all over the world, without any notoriety.

    Does that mean its right? Or not against the law?


    People are murdered every day. Should we legalize that? There's a crack dealer out there right now selling rock to some inner city youth, ruining his life. I guess thats ok too.


    Your view is too cynical. I'm not a proponent of the war on drugs, or a war on dog-fighting, but illegal is illegal. Even if you argue about the cruelty of act, the law is the law.


    If I broke it, you wouldn't be rushing to defend me, because you wouldn't even know who I was. SO it shoudl be with Vick, and seemingly so it will be since the Federal prosecutors have set up a strong, strong case.




  10. #10

    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Agreed, you cannot compare dog-fighting to killing livestock that we consume as food.

    Dogs are domesticated animals.

    Dude funded a company that promoted dog fighting, I just hope he gets what he deserves.

    These guys had fun torturing dogs cause it made them feel tough.




  11. #11

    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Mr T, don't even fucking go there and make any type of subtle comparison to that fucking scumbag Vick to myself or other hunters.
    Season over, guess I'll have to start drinking beer again...




  12. #12

    Re: OT: My people need to stop defending Dog Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    Listening to Michael Smith of ESPN.com, or Emmitt Smith, or the 2 "brothers" in Atlanta who have their radio show, you would almost think that dogfighting is a quite normal social activity, as is brutally killing the losing animal using electrocution, drowning, beating to death, etc
    Interestingly enough, I read a few weeks ago that one of those Stewart brothers from Atlanta actually has been a customer of some big dog breeding place -- not necessarily pit bulls, but large dogs like that that can serve as guard dogs or attack dogs. That doesn't mean he's involved in dog fighting, but it's strange that he and his brother show up on ESPN to talk about this issue and his involvement in this "industry" is never mentioned or asked about by the ESPN talking heads.

    Although it appears race is a factor here, I don't think it's ultimately a race issue as much as a geographical issue and a class issue. Sure, Vick is rich now, but he probably wasn't when he was introduced to dog fighting. I would be surprised if many middle to upper class black people in Seattle, for instance, are into this. Just a thought.

    Emmit Smith, by the way, sounded like a complete idiot about this. He really didn't even seem to understand what's going on. And ESPN hired him?




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