Starting Kicker Competition -- Tucker v. Cundiff (Merged)

[lobachevsky]

And I've never warmed to the way Harbaugh handles his roster. He doesn't play rookies, unless he's forced to, he holds onto some guys longer than he probably should, and his doghouse reminds me of a high school coach.

Harbaugh's philosophy is risk avoidance through consistency. He favors veterans because he's fairly sure what level of play he'll get from them--vs. rookies whose best play might be better (might be a lot better) but whose worst performance might be abysmal enough to lose a game (or get someone important hurt). He figures his teams are good enough to make the postseason unless they get a lot of bad breaks, so he plans & plays to minimize the chances of bad breaks--because once you make the postseason, "anything can happen."

That might not make for terribly exciting football, but it's hard to argue with its success--four consecutive playoff berths, two AFCC appearances among them.

Would you all have preferred reaching the Super Bowl twice (& losing decisively) but not making the postseason at all the other two years? It's easy to say "yes" from 20-20 hindsight--since we didn't make it to the big game anyway, it wouldn't matter if we had the chance or not--but lacking that, I think knowing at the end of the regular season that if you can just win the next 3 (or 4) games you're hoisting the Lombardi beats the crap out of waiting till next year. Ask any Orioles fan!

(JMO of course.)

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I have nothing against Cundiff, personally - I just don't want him to be the kicker for the Baltimore Ravens, that's all. And I've never warmed to the way Harbaugh handles his roster. He doesn't play rookies, unless he's forced to, he holds onto some guys longer than he probably should, and his doghouse reminds me of a high school coach.

It would be nice if people stopped acting like Harbaugh is the only one that does this or that the successful teams are more willing to play rookies.

[Terpsfan82]

It would be nice if people stopped acting like Harbaugh is the only one that does this or that the successful teams are more willing to play rookies.

Can't really speak too much for other teams, just the one I root for.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Can't really speak too much for other teams, just the one I root for.

Well, there is a saying..."be careful for what you wish for" when it comes to rookies.

There is a legit reason for why coaches prefer vets and it's based on history.

[Terpsfan82]

Well, there is a saying..."be careful for what you wish for" when it comes to rookies.

There is a legit reason for why coaches prefer vets and it's based on history.

Understood. Hindsight is 20/20, but the fact remains had Lee Evans never went down last year, we would have never known what Torrey Smith was capable of. Hence, he would have been a year behind where he is now in his development.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Well, last year during camp, nobody here on the board even wanted Torrey as the 3rd WR because he dropped so many passes in the preseason. Everybody was on Tandon Doss' nuts as the 3rd guy.

So looking back, people point to Torrey today, but if anything, I give that coaching staff a lot of credit for sticking with him and putting him out there when most of us didn't think he was ready. I wish there was a way to pull up some of those threads last year at this time where everybody was pissed that Torrey was getting so much PT over Doss.

[Terpsfan82]

Well, last year during camp, nobody here on the board even wanted Torrey as the 3rd WR because he dropped so many passes in the preseason. Everybody was on Tandon Doss' nuts as the 3rd guy.

So looking back, people point to Torrey today, but if anything, I give that coaching staff a lot of credit for sticking with him and putting him out there when most of us didn't think he was ready. I wish there was a way to pull up some of those threads last year at this time where everybody was pissed that Torrey was getting so much PT over Doss.

That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that had Lee Evans never got hurt, he wouldn't have seen the field. So yes, the coaching staff was right in their assessment of him as far as he being better than Doss. But they were woefully wrong that he was not better than Evans.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

He would have been the 3rd WR. Hardly "not seeing the field"

And who knows, if Evans wasn't hurt and had his speed, maybe he would have contributed. And maybe if he continued to go through the season not producing, the staff would have replaced him.

Nobody with a brain would have started Torrey after last preseason over Evans at the start of the season. Not any of us monday morning QB's, not any other team/coach.

Hell, Evans looked pretty good in those preseason games he was in.

[Terpsfan82]

He would have been the 3rd WR. Hardly "not seeing the field"

And who knows, if Evans wasn't hurt and had his speed, maybe he would have contributed. And maybe if he continued to go through the season not producing, the staff would have replaced him.

Nobody with a brain would have started Torrey after last preseason over Evans at the start of the season. Not any of us monday morning QB's, not any other team/coach.

Hell, Evans looked pretty good in those preseason games he was in.

You may be right about Torrey seeing action in 3 Wr sets, but how much did we run that last year? And I still contend that even if that were the case, he would not be as far along in his development as he is now.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Maybe they didn't run any 3 WR sets because after Torrey got the starting spot and Evans went down, the rest of our WR's either weren't ready or just weren't any good. When you had Pitta and Dickson, you play them over Q, Doss and Reed...none of whom were ready to play. And actually, starting they year, we ran 3 wide quite a bit with Q, Evans and Torrey the first 2 weeks and then with Laquan up until the Jax game where he just dropped too many passes at that point to keep him in.

As far as his development? That is pure assumption. Not all players have this huge difference just because they played 10-15 more snaps in a couple games. Most teaching and a lot of development happens in practice. You don't have to play in a lot of games the previous year for 2nd year guys to have breakout seasons.

[Terpsfan82]

Maybe they didn't run any 3 WR sets because after Torrey got the starting spot and Evans went down, the rest of our WR's either weren't ready or just weren't any good. When you had Pitta and Dickson, you play them over Q, Doss and Reed...none of whom were ready to play. And actually, starting they year, we ran 3 wide quite a bit with Q, Evans and Torrey the first 2 weeks and then with Laquan up until the Jax game where he just dropped too many passes at that point to keep him in.

As far as his development? That is pure assumption. Not all players have this huge difference just because they played 10-15 more snaps in a couple games. Most teaching and a lot of development happens in practice. You don't have to play in a lot of games the previous year for 2nd year guys to have breakout seasons.

No more than speculating that the development would have been the same had Evans not been injured.

[Paintballguy]

lets keep this thread on topic

[jonboy79]

Keeping Billy, to me, would be throwing good money at bad money. The signing bonus we already gave Billy is the "bad money'. It is a sunk cost. It's gone, there is nothign we can do about it. Sure cuttign him would cause some dead money next year, but our savings in salary would offset that. Beyond that, our savings in salary could be carried to next year making our kicking position FAr cheaper next year. Continuing to pay high salary to a guy who has proven unworthy is wasteful for a competing team up against the cap. Generic Vet kickers abound. capable cheap rooks do not. If tucker falters we can easily grab a generic vet kcker, probably even Billy Cundiff at almost any point in the year. If we cut Tucker before the season begins we will never see him again. . Even if we cut him after six weeks he is more likely PS stashable. And, at that point Cundiff would be on a week to week contract at a much lower rate. He may actually be a vested enough vet to get a fully guaranteed contract, but it would still be far cheaper then his current deal.

[RavenNut]

OK, take the extreme kicks for what they are a novelty. Although they have some value. Don't believe me? Would missing those extreme kicks make you fell better about him? Truth be told scouting, signing, and keeping good kickers is the biggest crap shoot in the NFL. So far Tucker has shown enough to get most of the game 3 kicks. It's time to tell Billy "We know what you can do". "We need to see Justin this week when the game is as real as it's going to get". If he passes that test Billy has to go. His career record is what it is, even if he posted another Pro Bowl year he will always be one of those kickers who can lose it just like that.

[Florida Art]

Billy Cundiff plays like a Raven...an Ex-Raven.

[rharris1986]

We can only keep our fingers crossed!

[Irish Raven]

Ah, lets save this thread for cut down day

I came in here expecting some announcement

[Sirdowski]

Ah, lets save this thread for cut down day

I came in here expecting some announcement

Same.

Thanks newb.

[Stealthbirds80]

AWWWW donkey spittle. I thought this was some type of deep undercover announcement. It's sad that I got just a little excited. Billy is a human being..... that cost us a trip to the superbowl

[kronusthebonus]

Heard Cundiff missed a few more today