Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

[jonboy79]

I agree that they are probably looking at Oher as the long term solution at left tackle UNLESS (which hopefully this is the case) they are in the position to draft a better LT prospect next year and/or are able to potentially sign a free agent LT.

At the end of the day though, a solid left tackle is one of the most difficult positions to acquire via draft or free agency. Even average left tackles never hit the open market in their prime because it's so hard to establish a guy who can adequately pass block on the left side.

If Oher can even be an average left tackle, then he'll be here for at least another 4 years or so and likely will be the LT. Sometimes it takes a guy a couple of years to really solidify their abilities at one position and they are bouncing Oher back and forth every other week (exaggerated, but the point remains), so it's probably not easy for him to really hone the skills for the LT position.

Houston fans were clamoring for Duane Brown to be cut after a year or two at LT and now he's one of the better LT's in the league. Same with Brandon Albert down in Kansas City.

Realistically, there are only 3 or 4 really "elite" (or what you could argue are elite) left tackles in the league right now [Long, Thomas, maybe Clady, maybe D. Brown] and there are several teams that are still successful with average and even - seemingly - below average left tackles. The Giants last year are a good example of this. The Cardinals re-signed Levi Brown and he's been nothing short of below average at LT since coming into the league...yet they felt compelled to keep him around. The alternatives just weren't good enough to make them comfortable with letting him go.

This is where the offensive coordinator and QB can really sow their oats with the passing game by game-planning around weak OT protection and getting the ball out quickly. that's what the Giants did last year with Eli, that's what the Bears do, etc.

I still don't think Brandon Albert is very good at all.
I'm deathl;y afraid that the coaching staff/FO thinks Oher can be the guy, I don't, at all.
I absolutely think the right move is to play McKinnie and Oher at left and right and draft a new LT next year. Then, we would have Oher and a rook to compete on the left, with reid and Osemele for the right. If the rook at any point in that year can supplant Oher, or looks poised to, then Oher can walk as a FA(assuming RT is handled, which to me is almost a gimme with the two we already have in house).
Our relative abundance of Rt's seems to point to me that hte FO likes Oher on the left, YUCCKKKKK.

[BigPlayReceiver]

Something to keep in mind when it comes to our passing game; going NH should help Cammie and Joe better compensate for our apparent OL shortcomings.

- Blitz or specialized defensive packages will be minimized, which usually means what you saw on film [from the defense] is what you're going to get.
- Birk will have more time (if needed) to adjust the OL calls.
- Joe will have more time (if needed) to absorb whatever pre-snap look he's getting, realize the favorable match-ups, and execute [and release the ball] quicker, thus making most blitzes ineffective.



Was in TL;DR mode for this thread, so my apologies if this was already mentioned up-thread

[wickedsolo]

I still don't think Brandon Albert is very good at all.

He's not, but that isn't the point. He's an average LT, but the Chiefs are going to stick with him because he's better than the alternative.

In Baltimore, Oher may not ever be a great left tackle, but he can probably be an average one. It's very likely that Baltimore may determine that they're better with an average Oher at LT than taking a chance on a rookie...now if the Ravens are picking in the top 15 (hopefully this will never be the case unless they trade up) and they have a shot at a top rated LT prospect (Next year...say Oday Aboushi out of UVA or Luke Joeckle out of Texas A&M).

I'm deathl;y afraid that the coaching staff/FO thinks Oher can be the guy, I don't, at all.
I absolutely think the right move is to play McKinnie and Oher at left and right and draft a new LT next year. Then, we would have Oher and a rook to compete on the left, with reid and Osemele for the right. If the rook at any point in that year can supplant Oher, or looks poised to, then Oher can walk as a FA(assuming RT is handled, which to me is almost a gimme with the two we already have in house).
Our relative abundance of Rt's seems to point to me that hte FO likes Oher on the left, YUCCKKKKK.

They see him and work with him every day.

Again, the Cardinals just re-signed Levi Brown to, IIRC, a multi-year deal to stay their LT. LEVI BROWN. He's arguably the worst starting LT in the NFL right now.

If Oher can be, at the very least, a below average to average LT for a couple of years then I doubt they'll really gun for a top tiered LT in the draft and will likely bolster other positions like ILB, FS, and WR.

[jonboy79]

...now if the Ravens are picking in the top 15 (hopefully this will never be the case unless they trade up) and they have a shot at a top rated LT prospect (Next year...say Oday Aboushi out of UVA or Luke Joeckle out of Texas A&M).

.

I think a trade up is almost essential int he upcoming draft.

[lobachevsky]

Shouldn't we get a fair haul of compensatory picks next year for all the FAs we lost this year? (JJ, Redding, Grubbs, Zibby, Ninja, C. Carr, have I left anyone out?) I know you can't trade comp picks, but a decent number would give Oz some leeway to bundle the regular picks in the interests of grabbing a top LT prospect.

McKinnie seems to be in a better shape this year (despite the back stuff) & has a year in the system (vs joining the team at the last minute)--he's not going to need a lot of work before sliding into the starting LT slot.

As this TC is playing out, it may be something of an extended audition for Oher at LT: Either he shows he can play the position at an acceptable level, or next year they bundle picks for a top prospect to anchor the blind side. Oher could compete against that prospect (he's under contract through '13), & if he wins the job we'd get a good year from him before he walks; but if he's "weighed in the balance & found wanting" 2 preseasons in a row, his stock as a potential LT in free agency may be depressed to the point where he might come to understand that he's really a RT at this level, & re-upping here (for RT cash) would be a good deal all around.

(ETA: IMO one of the best features of how the Ravens operate is that if a player thinks he can play a better role, or get a better deal, they make their case but then step back & let him try--& when more often than not that player returns, it's because he now understands & accepts that the FO was right after all.)

At least that's how I'd be thinking if I were in the FO. But hey, what do I know...(don't answer that!)

[jonboy79]

Carr was a cut, doesn't factore in to comp picks.
We picked up Jones and Bobbie williams to relatively cheap contracts, anyone else? . were either of them cuts?

[CRZA938]

I want to say Williams was injured then cut, and that Jones was an FA. Not certain though..

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Shouldn't we get a fair haul of compensatory picks next year for all the FAs we lost this year? (JJ, Redding, Grubbs, Zibby, Ninja, C. Carr, have I left anyone out?) I know you can't trade comp picks, but a decent number would give Oz some leeway to bundle the regular picks in the interests of grabbing a top LT prospect.

Yeah, we should be getting quite a few picks...Grubbs may land us the last 3rd rounder or the first 4th. JJ probably will get us a 4th or 5th. And we may get a 6th or 7th for the safeties/Redding.

Carr won't count for us because we cut him.

I expect us to get the most/highest picks we've ever received next year (max that can be awarded is 4 I believe)...and assuming Grubbs plays very well next year, I'm thinking he will get us a 3rd (which is like gold).

I want to say Williams was injured then cut, and that Jones was an FA. Not certain though..

Williams was a UFA and Jones was cut.

[Lee Van Cleef]

Again, the Cardinals just re-signed Levi Brown to, IIRC, a multi-year deal to stay their LT. LEVI BROWN. He's arguably the worst starting LT in the NFL right now.

He's awful. But I'm not sure we should be comparing the team to the Cardinals, who are pretty bad generally at the moment. I do think LT is a somewhat overstated position generally, but Cam's offence needs an above average one TBH. Maybe a change in offensive philosophy will make Oher more serviceable, but who knows at this point.

[wickedsolo]

He's awful. But I'm not sure we should be comparing the team to the Cardinals, who are pretty bad generally at the moment. I do think LT is a somewhat overstated position generally, but Cam's offence needs an above average one TBH. Maybe a change in offensive philosophy will make Oher more serviceable, but who knows at this point.

Definitely not comparing the Ravens to the Cards...haha, absolutely not!

Just the point that even a team like Arizona (who had opportunities to take someone like Cordy Glenn and Riley Reiff) chose to stick with Levi Brown.

[Shas]

Shouldn't we get a fair haul of compensatory picks next year for all the FAs we lost this year? (JJ, Redding, Grubbs, Zibby, Ninja, C. Carr, have I left anyone out?)

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the list of gained/lost free agents

LOST:

1. Chris Carr (Minnesota)
2. Ben Grubbs (New Orleans)
3. Jarret Johnson (San Diego)
4. Brandon McKinney (Indianapolis)
5. Haruki Nakamura (Carolina)
6. Cory Redding (Indianapolis)
7. Tom Zbikowski (Indianapolis)

GAINED:

1. Corey Graham (Chicago)
2. Bobbie Williams, (Cincinnati)
3. Ryan McBean (Denver)
4. Jacoby Jones (Houston)
5. Curtis Painter (Indianapolis)
6. Billy Bajema (St. Louis)
7. Tony Wragge (St. Louis)
8. Sean Considine (Arizona)

You have to lose more than you sign to get any picks, even if the smaller number of guys you lost are subjectively better players than the larger number of guys you signed.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the list of gained/lost free agents

LOST:

1. Chris Carr (Minnesota)
2. Ben Grubbs (New Orleans)
3. Jarret Johnson (San Diego)
4. Brandon McKinney (Indianapolis)
5. Haruki Nakamura (Carolina)
6. Cory Redding (Indianapolis)
7. Tom Zbikowski (Indianapolis)

GAINED:

1. Corey Graham (Chicago)
2. Bobbie Williams, (Cincinnati)
3. Ryan McBean (Denver)
4. Jacoby Jones (Houston)
5. Curtis Painter (Indianapolis)
6. Billy Bajema (St. Louis)
7. Tony Wragge (St. Louis)
8. Sean Considine (Arizona)

You have to lose more than you sign to get any picks, even if the smaller number of guys you lost are subjectively better players than the larger number of guys you signed.

Carr and Jones were cut and don't count either way.

I also would say Painter and Wragge are extreme longshots to make the team...McBean likely will be released as well (settlement).

I don't think the signings matter until you start your season. So you can likely take 3 off of the "gained" list and 1 off the "lost" list.

[Ravenswintitle]

I think a trade up is almost essential int he upcoming draft.

for an Olineman? maybe a spot or two up from 32 but that's all I could see

[Shas]

I don't think the signings matter until you start your season.

I think you may be right. Or, more to the point, in retrospect, I think the league only counts "compensatory" free agents -- free agents who meet certain salary, playing time and achievement status. So the guys you mention probably won't rise to the level to be counted at all.

[jonboy79]

for an Olineman? maybe a spot or two up from 32 but that's all I could see

I'd like to trade up to the early teens. I'd trade our first two picks for a legit LT.

[wickedsolo]

I'd like to trade up to the early teens. I'd trade our first two picks for a legit LT.

But consider the risks involved with a decision like that.

Sure, they get a crack at a top rated LT prospect...but it's still a fairly substantial risk. Who knows if that LT will pan out or not. Look at Jason Smith in St. Louis. 2nd overall pick as a LT prospect.

Sometimes the devil you know is a better situation than the devil you don't.

[jonboy79]

b

But consider the risks involved with a decision like that.

Sure, they get a crack at a top rated LT prospect...but it's still a fairly substantial risk. Who knows if that LT will pan out or not. Look at Jason Smith in St. Louis. 2nd overall pick as a LT prospect.

Sometimes the devil you know is a better situation than the devil you don't.

All picks are risks. Look at any number of draft busts at every single position.
I think our OL is the biggest weakness on the roster(with a healthy Suggs0 and I think basically every top LT was picked in the top 15 overall of their respective draft. The risk/reward of such a move is acceptable to me.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

b

All picks are risks. Look at any number of draft busts at every single position.
I think our OL is the biggest weakness on the roster(with a healthy Suggs0 and I think basically every top LT was picked in the top 15 overall of their respective draft. The risk/reward of such a move is acceptable to me.

I agree that LT should be a priority, but I don't agree with this.

Off the top of my head...Peters was undrafted, Duane Brown was a late 1st, Whitworth was a 2nd, Roos was a 2nd. I'm sure there are more.

You can find good LT's later in the top rounds.

[wickedsolo]

I agree that LT should be a priority, but I don't agree with this.

Off the top of my head...Peters was undrafted, Duane Brown was a late 1st, Whitworth was a 2nd, Roos was a 2nd. I'm sure there are more.

You can find good LT's later in the top rounds.

They are few and far between, but this is true. You can find and develop quality LT's outside of the top 15.

[jonboy79]

I agree that LT should be a priority, but I don't agree with this.

Off the top of my head...Peters was undrafted, Duane Brown was a late 1st, Whitworth was a 2nd, Roos was a 2nd. I'm sure there are more.


Funny to me, is that you listed, IMO the most overrated LT's in football, as in ever single one of them.
You can find good LT's later in the top rounds.

Gaither was 5th supplemental, Donald Penn UDFA, Veldheer in the 3rd, Joe Staley late first... yet despite my addition, we still haven't named probably 70% of the players I would consider better then average(top 15).


It's like saying you can find a HOF QB late because of Brady and Romo... sure you can, but mathematically, it's a BADDD way to go about it. Top end Tackles are almost never worse then solid-great guards(Robert Gallery) when everythign shakes out. Busts at other positions many times are out of football ina few years.

I would argue that LT is the LOWEST RISK of all high level picks, and also that it is a position that subscribes to the "planet theory" in that theere are only a set ammount of people on the planet that have the size and skillset to play the position at a high level. Traditionally this means "most" of the LT prospects are gone by the teens, early 20's overall.

Sure we could luck into another Jared Gaither, but I think I'd rather devote solid assets to make the scenario more likely. And maybe, jsut maybe, he wouldn't have a flawed character and wouldn't need to be driven from the team.