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  1. #49
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?



    If they focus on Torrey and Boldin, it should open up some space for Rice. Dickson/Pitta will get more looks than Jones. I think some of you guys are overestimating the production we are going to need out of our #3 wr.




  2. #50

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    I offer you Exhibit A, TJ Houshmandzadeh (dropped pass ended final drive in 2010 playoffs); Exhibit B Lee Evans (Dropped pass cost trip to Super Bowl); Exhibit C Jacoby Jones (history of dropping passes and has 11 career fumbles in.... not all that many touches).
    But, that's the thing right there. Neither TJ nor Evans (nor Boldin, who also has had some big drops) were known for having issues catching the ball. So, I'm not sure those drops are really relevant to the team's ability to evaluate WRs because they were more the exception than the rule (like Rice's fumble in the playoffs in Pitts and Heap's fumble in the playoffs against Indy).

    So, I'm not sure how those exceptions prove anything about the team's evaluation process?

    The fact is.... WRs drop passes - even the best of them.

    And, yes, Jones has a history of dropping it more than some others. I don't know, I guess I'd rather let the player prove he's going to fail than worry about predicting it.

    But, I'm not sure anyone should be surprised that Jones would win the 3rd WR spot? He - by all reports - has had a very good camp and his competition has caught all of 4 passes in the NFL (with some drops along the way too). Heck, Doss hasn't hardly even played and has spent more time hurt than healthy in his 2 years in the NFL.

    I know people are going to say that they'd prefer to go with the unproven player as opposed to the player who has proven that he's going to drop the ball, but I think that's a bit short sighted. After all, if the Ravens are so poor at evaluating WRs, then what does that say about Doss, LQW and the rest, too?

    Joking aside, though, Jones size and speed make him a better fit for what the Ravens want to do, so, IMO, it's not a great surprise that he would get the first crack at the 3rd spot (although, depending on the package, I still expect to see others in the 3rd spot at times). It will then be up to Jones to determine whether he keeps that job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbirds80 View Post
    With the history of WRs here, especially recently for the 3rd WR position, it was a bit toned down IMO. For me, it comes down to bringing in an outsider vs homegrown. Retreads at this position have let us down.

    The rest of their decision making cannot be questioned I agree.
    OK, fair enough.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  3. #51
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    I see the same thing Ravor but I'm not sure it's the right move. When Evans got hurt last year it forced them to use and unproven Torrey Smith more than they were expecting to. Smith learned quickly and had a very nice year. If Evans doesn't get hurt I'm not sure that Smith is on the field all that much.

    I really hope that Jones takes advantage of this opportunity and does more with it than he did in Houston. Once Andre Johnson got hurt last year everyone expected big things from Jones but he melted under the pressure.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #52

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    If they focus on Torrey and Boldin, it should open up some space for Rice. Dickson/Pitta will get more looks than Jones. I think some of you guys are overestimating the production we are going to need out of our #3 wr.
    While i agree i think it's still important to get reliability there, this offense is obviously trying to become more versatile and productive and a huge part of that is reliability.




  5. #53

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    But, that's the thing right there. Neither TJ nor Evans (nor Boldin, who also has had some big drops) were known for having issues catching the ball. So, I'm not sure those drops are really relevant to the team's ability to evaluate WRs because they were more the exception than the rule (like Rice's fumble in the playoffs in Pitts and Heap's fumble in the playoffs against Indy).

    So, I'm not sure how those exceptions prove anything about the team's evaluation process?

    The fact is.... WRs drop passes - even the best of them.

    And, yes, Jones has a history of dropping it more than some others. I don't know, I guess I'd rather let the player prove he's going to fail than worry about predicting it.

    But, I'm not sure anyone should be surprised that Jones would win the 3rd WR spot? He - by all reports - has had a very good camp and his competition has caught all of 4 passes in the NFL (with some drops along the way too). Heck, Doss hasn't hardly even played and has spent more time hurt than healthy in his 2 years in the NFL.

    I know people are going to say that they'd prefer to go with the unproven player as opposed to the player who has proven that he's going to drop the ball, but I think that's a bit short sighted. After all, if the Ravens are so poor at evaluating WRs, then what does that say about Doss, LQW and the rest, too?

    Joking aside, though, Jones size and speed make him a better fit for what the Ravens want to do, so, IMO, it's not a great surprise that he would get the first crack at the 3rd spot (although, depending on the package, I still expect to see others in the 3rd spot at times). It will then be up to Jones to determine whether he keeps that job.

    You are making too much sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I see the same thing Ravor but I'm not sure it's the right move. When Evans got hurt last year it forced them to use and unproven Torrey Smith more than they were expecting to. Smith learned quickly and had a very nice year. If Evans doesn't get hurt I'm not sure that Smith is on the field all that much.

    I really hope that Jones takes advantage of this opportunity and does more with it than he did in Houston. Once Andre Johnson got hurt last year everyone expected big things from Jones but he melted under the pressure.
    With all due respect, people keep bringing up Torrey but 95% of this board was pissed that we even kept Torrey as the #3. He had one of the worse camps we've seen as far as a WR dropping passes. Not a single person on this board, or coach in the NFL would have started the season with Torrey starting over Lee Evans.

    But saying that, that doesn't mean that the coaching staff would have continued to start Evans over Torrey if his non-production continued. Really, that's essentially what happened as Evans started the first 2 games last year, gave us literally nothing and the team sat him to rest an injury that they initially hoped he could play through.




  6. #54
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    B
    I know people are going to say that they'd prefer to go with the unproven player as opposed to the player who has proven that he's going to drop the ball, but I think that's a bit short sighted. After all, if the Ravens are so poor at evaluating WRs, then what does that say about Doss, LQW and the rest, too?
    Haha!! That's a good point. Actually they are all good points, really.

    I guess it just comes down to for me, personally, is that he has a proven history of bad hands, and the #1 thing I care about with Wr's is hands.

    I don't care about height, 40 times or anything else, unless the dude can first show me that he will rip the ball out of the sky and hold on to it over and over and over again. I wouldn't even look at a guy further if he couldn't prove himself a reliable catcher of the ball. But that's me -- obviously in the NFL there are other factors they value, but there's nothing worse than seeing a guy open,and you're the QB and going "oh shit, i gotta throw it to Rodney the no-talent ass-clown again". Just like having to pass to a guy in hoops you know is open but won't make the shot because he sucks, or when the guy on your baseball team who strikes out all the time comes up to bat.

    To me at the pro level why even screw around with a guy who makes that many mistakes with ball security?

    I'd really love to hear the FO answer directly the question: Given Jones history of drops and fumbles, where does he provide enough benefit to offset those negatives that you know he's going to bring to the table?

    Catching isn't just about hands. It's courage, concentration and determination too. And those you can't teach with a Jugs machine or anything else. Once a guy does'nt have thosethings, he isn't going to have them. He'll just be a freakishly talented athlete who happens not to be terribly well suited to the sport he plays, but plays anyway because lesser athletes don't impress as much in practice etc. It's the way it is.

    I would think in the "zero error environment" that the NFL is moving to (and the Ravens being at the forefront of "win the turnover battle first" ideology") that a guy like Jones just isn't what fits. We will see. And pray.




  7. #55

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    I'd also point out that the last guy we got from Houston had an even worse reputation.

    He starts at safety now and we love him now.




  8. #56

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Haha!! That's a good point. Actually they are all good points, really.

    I guess it just comes down to for me, personally, is that he has a proven history of bad hands, and the #1 thing I care about with Wr's is hands.

    I don't care about height, 40 times or anything else, unless the dude can first show me that he will rip the ball out of the sky and hold on to it over and over and over again. I wouldn't even look at a guy further if he couldn't prove himself a reliable catcher of the ball. But that's me -- obviously in the NFL there are other factors they value, but there's nothing worse than seeing a guy open,and you're the QB and going "oh shit, i gotta throw it to Rodney the no-talent ass-clown again". Just like having to pass to a guy in hoops you know is open but won't make the shot because he sucks, or when the guy on your baseball team who strikes out all the time comes up to bat.

    To me at the pro level why even screw around with a guy who makes that many mistakes with ball security?

    I'd really love to hear the FO answer directly the question: Given Jones history of drops and fumbles, where does he provide enough benefit to offset those negatives that you know he's going to bring to the table?

    Catching isn't just about hands. It's courage, concentration and determination too. And those you can't teach with a Jugs machine or anything else. Once a guy does'nt have thosethings, he isn't going to have them. He'll just be a freakishly talented athlete who happens not to be terribly well suited to the sport he plays, but plays anyway because lesser athletes don't impress as much in practice etc. It's the way it is.

    I would think in the "zero error environment" that the NFL is moving to (and the Ravens being at the forefront of "win the turnover battle first" ideology") that a guy like Jones just isn't what fits. We will see. And pray.
    I share the general idea that you want an NFL WR that can catch and that should be the main concern.

    But if you want to throw out all the other measurables, then Torrey should never have been picked as he had a reputation for drops in college and struggled as much as any WR I can remember last preseason catching the ball.




  9. #57

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I'd also point out that the last guy we got from Houston had an even worse reputation.

    He starts at safety now and we love him now.
    So true.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  10. #58

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Pollard and Leach vouched for Jonss, so I am going to take a wait-and-see. Big play WR are going to drop some even Torrey has, and I have to see more than a drive or two to make up my mind.....he obviously has mucho speed, more than Lee Evans had.

    I also think the two TEs are going to be the key.....if Dixon can catch the damn ball, we will be OK.
    Way Down South in New Orleans




  11. #59
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    IMO it's not about the talent as much as the philosophy of this coaching staff and the scheme. When you adopt a play -not -to -lose philosophy and then are locked into a tightly contested match with a team of equal talent and equal or better coaching, you are doomed to fail repeatedly when at that time you turn to a specific unit on the team and say "O.K., go win the game for us"; especially when they haven't been allowed to establish any rhythm. It's no different than a basketball player, after being ignored the entire game, being asked to take the game winning shot.




  12. #60

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I see the same thing Ravor but I'm not sure it's the right move. When Evans got hurt last year it forced them to use and unproven Torrey Smith more than they were expecting to. Smith learned quickly and had a very nice year. If Evans doesn't get hurt I'm not sure that Smith is on the field all that much.
    True, but Tory was a 2nd round pick and LQW was undrafted. Smith certainly had more of a pedigree. Yes, they were forced to use him, but it should have been expected (although doesn't always happen) that he step up.

    Doss, well, they are extremely down on him because, he hasn't really lived up to his reputation as a "tough" WR, given all the time he's spent on the sidelines nursing injuries.

    I really hope that Jones takes advantage of this opportunity and does more with it than he did in Houston. Once Andre Johnson got hurt last year everyone expected big things from Jones but he melted under the pressure.
    If we were asking him to replace our "Andre Johnson" (wouldn't that be nice!), then I'd be more concerned, however, we're only asking him to be our #3. Hopefully, he won't melt in that role.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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