Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

[Paintballguy]

KO has played his way on the field. McKinnie has not.

[jonboy79]

I told everyone here that Oher outplayed McKinnie. I wasn't the only one who saw that either.

Listen guys, it's not that McKinnie CANT beat out Oher for the LT position, it's just that he DIDNT and ISNT. He's not in good shape and they're planning on running a lot more no huddle offense with quick snap counts. They need guys out there who are in good shape and can keep up. Even though Bobby Williams is older, he's not in bad shape. IIRC he lost like 20lbs or something coming into pre-season camp back in August.

Finally, it is about who the best 5 offensive lineman are. McKinnie is no longer in that group. Can he regain the starting LT position? Absolutely, but my money is on him just sitting back and collecting a pay check. He doesn't care about winning - he never did - and he doesn't ever really put 100% into the game, so you could probably argue that the only real reason he continues to play is because it is easy money for him.

Definitely a couple of guys on here who really shit on posters for even suggesting that Oher could start over McKinnie. I'm sure those guys will all claim that the coaching staff doesn't know what they're doing (and they obviously do) and this is going to be a massive failure.

I disagree though.

Oher and KO (IMO) is a better combination than McKinnie and Oher.

I actually agree with a lot of this... basically all of it that doesn't include Oher being able to play LT at the NFL level.
Joe better get rid of the ball QUICK.
I can't imagine that this owuld last past the bye week before they realize what everyone most everyone else sees.
I think it's entirely possible that KO plays well enough to keep the RT spot, but I don't see how Oher can. myabe he will be shifted inside to guard to take Williams off the field, if and when McKinney returns.
I know Harbs and CO are dead set on proving that Michael Oher is a LT, i jsut don't believe it.


He did, however, make strides this preseason and outplay McKinnie. I simply think that through the course of several games we will see that was a mirage. I expect a massive penalty total and some serious pressure fcoming from the Blindside.
Couldn't possibly hope I am wrong more then I do... Because I have a sneaking suspision that Oher will stay at Lt as long as he is physically able, regardless of level of play.

[leachisabeast]

My coaches film doesn't work yet, how'd you use it

Did you take out the most expensive option? I have the option where they cover the play offs too... if you go to plays, coaches film option should be at the bottom.

BTW I re checked it, and it's actually KO who pulls out and seals off a real nice block. But Bobbie Williams looked good at right guard in the first half vs the Jags.

[The Excellector]

This is about effort. When you have a player that provides top notch consistent effort, you can trust that player and have a better chance of improving any technical issues.

Peyton Manning has run this sugar huddle offense in Indianapolis with plenty of veterans. However, they are veterans that gave high quality effort, because they took pride in their work.

What we are underestimating is how poorly conditioned McKinnie is. Just because he came to camp at a lower weight than last year, doesn't mean he even close to the shape that Bobbie Williams is in. McKinnie reported to Minnesota close to 400 pounds. Reporting to the Ravens at around 365-370 may be a victory for McKinnie, but is still nothing compared to the shape and conditioning of his fellow linemen (Yanda, Williams, Oher, Osemele).

You now have two tackles that will give top notch effort and who can maul in the fourth quarter. They won't have an issue running to either side. Oher's pass protection looks to have improved. He still gives up too much ground at times, before contacting a rusher, but it is certainly better than 2010.

If you are going to go off of what you saw in 2010, Lardarius Webb wouldn't be a starter.

[JAB1985]

McKinnie had a bad game vs the Jags, Williams did not, I'm not seeing how McKinnie had even close to a good camp.

Showed up over weight, and was 3 days late to TC to party in Miami.

Couldn't break into the starting line up in TC even before the pre season games started.

Came in and looked good against Atlantas third stringers.

Started the second half vs the Lions second stringers, and looked OK, but messed up on some run blocking assignments.

Finally got into the first team when Yanda went down for the Jags game. Looked awful and gave up two sacks. Looked terrible as a run blocker.

He then proceeded to take to twitter to tell the world that he was off the team because the Ravens wanted to cut his pay.

Yeah, that sounds like a good camp to me...

Bobbie Williams on the other hand, lost 20 lbs, and apart from one bad game vs the Falcons. He looked good against the Jags, and pulled from the left guard position pretty well. I watched on coaches tape, one of Rices runs, he sealed off a nice block against Mincey. Williams kept his head down, and has worked hard to earn his spot on the starting team, McKinnie has not.

Coaches know better than us at the end of the day though, lets wait and see on Monday if they are right.

Mckinnie lost 20 Lbs too even though he showed up late and passed his conditioning test on the first try, so i dont see how people keep saying thats an issue. He apparently had one bad game, where he only gave up one sack from what i can find and it was on a stunt and miscommunication with KO, a rookie. If youre going to take away Williams worse game because of playing beside a rookie, why wouldnt you take away the one sack he allowed playing beside a rookie. I know the answer, hes not likable. I dont really like the guy either, and guys like Oher and Williams I certainly do, but I care about whats on the field. McKinnie isnt strong in the run game, i think we can all agree but were going to be passing alot and he is one of the better pass protectors on this team regardless where he stands overall. Like i said, i trust the coaches, if they say this is the best, ill swallow that pill and accept it. IMO, its not, but im also not there everyday and paid to make these decisions. chances are we wont get to see both in action again, unless this one failed or theres an injury, and frankly im not rooting for either, so hopefully we dont find out.

bryant mckinnies conditioning has improved since he-arrived-at training camp

[leachisabeast]

I actually agree with a lot of this... basically all of it that doesn't include Oher being able to play LT at the NFL level.
Joe better get rid of the ball QUICK.
I can't imagine that this owuld last past the bye week before they realize what everyone most everyone else sees.
I think it's entirely possible that KO plays well enough to keep the RT spot, but I don't see how Oher can. myabe he will be shifted inside to guard to take Williams off the field, if and when McKinney returns.
I know Harbs and CO are dead set on proving that Michael Oher is a LT, i jsut don't believe it.


He did, however, make strides this preseason and outplay McKinnie. I simply think that through the course of several games we will see that was a mirage. I expect a massive penalty total and some serious pressure fcoming from the Blindside.
Couldn't possibly hope I am wrong more then I do... Because I have a sneaking suspision that Oher will stay at Lt as long as he is physically able, regardless of level of play.

There have been plenty of left tackles who looked TERRIBLE in their first season starting. I will take Jarred Veldheer as a recent example, he looked like one of the worst tackles in the game, and now he's probably a top left tackle in the league. He was only a 3rd round pick.

[The Excellector]

Again, McKinnie's conditioning improved by 'McKinnie's' standards. That doesn't mean that he is nearly up to par with the other linemen on the team.

[leachisabeast]

stunt and miscommunication with KO, a rookie. If youre going to take away Williams worse game because of playing beside a rookie, why wouldnt you take away the one sack he allowed playing beside a rookie.[/URL]

Whether he lost that weight or not (it's coming from his mouth only from what I've seen). He was still 360 lbs. 360 lbs for a left tackle in a sugar huddle offense is not going to suffice. Also the rookie example is not a very good one, KO has looked twice the player Gradkowski has in pre season, and it's much harder playing besides an undersized rookie center as a guard that it is playing next to a huge mauler of a guard. Whether it was the fault of KO or not, he is still to blame on that play, if you see a player coming free when your not blocking anyone (which he wasn't) you block him regardless.

I honestly can't see McKinnie running up and down the field and consistently protecting Flaccos blind spot completion after completion, and still having to run block. At least we will know if Oher can play left tackle or not.

[Bazooka Joe]

We could still see Mckinnie in the game. Maybe we are using those six guys in rotations.

[leachisabeast]

Again, McKinnie's conditioning improved by 'McKinnie's' standards. That doesn't mean that he is nearly up to par with the other linemen on the team.

Exactly.

[JAB1985]

Whether it was the fault of KO or not, he is still to blame on that play, if you see a player coming free when your not blocking anyone (which he wasn't) you block him regardless.

I agree, which is why i still hold that game against Bobby even though it does make sense as to why it happened. you seem to be dismissing it because Gradkowski isnt as good as KO but regardless it was the exact same deal, he didnt block the guy infront of him and it happened on more than one occasion with Williams.

At least we will know if Oher can play left tackle or not.

and this is important. because if he does fail again, hopefully that means Osemele gets a shot and we invest in another G or T in the draft/FA, depending on how that goes. Theres always a positive in everything. ill admit, Oher looked like he could handle it in preseason, i just hope that continues and he doesnt pull a 2010 again, or let those penalties and false starts carry over into the season, which has always been an issue with him.

[wickedsolo]

I actually agree with a lot of this... basically all of it that doesn't include Oher being able to play LT at the NFL level.
Joe better get rid of the ball QUICK.
I can't imagine that this owuld last past the bye week before they realize what everyone most everyone else sees.
I think it's entirely possible that KO plays well enough to keep the RT spot, but I don't see how Oher can. myabe he will be shifted inside to guard to take Williams off the field, if and when McKinney returns.
I know Harbs and CO are dead set on proving that Michael Oher is a LT, i jsut don't believe it.


He did, however, make strides this preseason and outplay McKinnie. I simply think that through the course of several games we will see that was a mirage. I expect a massive penalty total and some serious pressure fcoming from the Blindside.
Couldn't possibly hope I am wrong more then I do... Because I have a sneaking suspision that Oher will stay at Lt as long as he is physically able, regardless of level of play.

I'm not of the mindset that Oher is going to be anything more than an average LT in the league. I still feel that his best position would be (and should be) guard. However, he displayed footwork and recovery this pre-season that he hasn't showed before. At the very least, I think he could be a serviceable LT and not get Joe killed. However, he could also really surprise and develop into a slightly above average or even - GASP dare I say it?! - good left tackle. It'll be interesting to see, that's for sure.

We could still see Mckinnie in the game. Maybe we are using those six guys in rotations.

I think you could definitely be right. I wouldn't be surprised to see Harewood, McKinnie and Jah rotating in to keep guys' legs fresh.

[jonboy79]

There have been plenty of left tackles who looked TERRIBLE in their first season starting. I will take Jarred Veldheer as a recent example, he looked like one of the worst tackles in the game, and now he's probably a top left tackle in the league. He was only a 3rd round pick.

Veldheer came in and played admirably as a rook, to my eyes.
Oher has started in two seperate years at Lt, looking worse the second try then the first.

A better example is D'Brickishaw ferguson who looked completely overmatched physically as a rook, and took a couple years to grow into his role.
The problme, to me, is that Oher hasn't looked physically overmatched, he's looked mentally overmatched consistantly his entire pro career, LT or right. Also, to my eyeys, the best he looked was on the right as a rookie. He seems to have gotten progressively worse with each passing year.

I REALLY< REALLY think he would be best served playing guard. It's not a slam, I think his game, body type and Strengths/Weaknesses play out much better inside. I'll probabloy never find that out.

All that said, this preseason he looked very different. I even saw him use his arms extended a few times to keep the rusher at a distance, something i had previously thought he was reluctant to do. I think that is a bigger issue then his false start epidemic, and actually could cure that issue if he gets comfortable doing so. He leaves the line too early in hopes of getting up under his mark's shoulder pads to body him off the ball, I'd much rather see him take his time, and steer the defender around the pocket using his hands/arms the way every other LT does.

[jonboy79]

I'm not of the mindset that Oher is going to be anything more than an average LT in the league. I still feel that his best position would be (and should be) guard. However, he displayed footwork and recovery this pre-season that he hasn't showed before. At the very least, I think he could be a serviceable LT and not get Joe killed. However, he could also really surprise and develop into a slightly above average or even - GASP dare I say it?! - good left tackle. It'll be interesting to see, that's for sure.

servicable in a Jermon Bushrod way sure, but good... don't see that in Oher. I hope I'm wrong, I jsut don't see it, and haven't seen it since before he was drafted.

[leachisabeast]

to me, is that Oher hasn't looked physically overmatched, he's looked mentally overmatched consistantly his entire pro career, LT or right. Also, to my eyeys, the best he looked was on the right as a rookie. He seems to have gotten progressively worse with each passing year.

This I have to agree with. He has always looked physically great, and good enough it's his mental errors, that go all the way back to HS, it is the most concerning thing IMO. This is his real chance to show that he has overcame that problem, otherwise he will be a right tackle or a guard for the rest of his NFL career.

I wouldn't say progressively worse is fair, he looked better this year than 2010 (admittedly that was on the right side.)

[jonboy79]

This I have to agree with. He has always looked physically great, and good enough it's his mental errors, that go all the way back to HS, it is the most concerning thing IMO. This is his real chance to show that he has overcame that problem, otherwise he will be a right tackle or a guard for the rest of his NFL career.

I wouldn't say progressively worse is fair, he looked better this year than 2010 (admittedly that was on the right side.)

It wasn't that he looked worse on the right in 11 then he did at LT in 2010, in this case i mean worse in that the hurdle was lower and he still plowed into it. He sure did look better on the right, but in my eyes that is an easier accomplishment. As a rook he looked like a Probowler, as a second year he showed he was completely incapable of Lt and last year he looked very mediocre on the right. I would say that average is as nice a word as I could use to explains last years RT play, which is better then I would ever use for '10 on the left.

[Lime in the Coconut]

I believe Oher will be better this time around at LT. He's just looked a lot more in tune, just overall a better player. Osemele will make some mistakes and have some bumps in the road, but I see him being a nice RT, especially in the run game. I think it's great to have a reliable 3rd tackle. Keeping Bryant around will prove to be the right move, you can never have enough reliable, solid tackles IMO.

[Corey]

It became clear in the preseason why the Ravens wanted McKinnie at a certain weight at the beginning of training camp. And that was probably with the hope that he could drop a few more and get in better shape as training camp went on. McKinnie didn't get it done. I am ok going with Osemele and Oher. I think the face paced offense can help to mask some of their struggles.

[jonboy79]

one good thing is that the hurry up offense will also keep DE's tired, making Oher's job easier then in the past. If Joe can continue to get the ball out quick that magnifies that. At that point, the line is basically a run blocking unit that can hold up a BIT in the pass game. Those are hurdles I think Oher can clear, and be effective in. IF, big if, that all happens, this could be a good move as everyone agrees Big Mike is a better runblocker then Big Mac.

[Jsmoove]

McKinnie had a bad game vs the Jags, Williams did not, I'm not seeing how McKinnie had even close to a good camp.

Showed up over weight, and was 3 days late to TC to party in Miami.

Couldn't break into the starting line up in TC even before the pre season games started.

Came in and looked good against Atlantas third stringers.

Started the second half vs the Lions second stringers, and looked OK, but messed up on some run blocking assignments.

Finally got into the first team when Yanda went down for the Jags game. Looked awful and gave up two sacks. Looked terrible as a run blocker.

He then proceeded to take to twitter to tell the world that he was off the team because the Ravens wanted to cut his pay.

Yeah, that sounds like a good camp to me...

Bobbie Williams on the other hand, lost 20 lbs, and apart from one bad game vs the Falcons. He looked good against the Jags, and pulled from the left guard position pretty well. I watched on coaches tape, one of Rices runs, he sealed off a nice block against Mincey. Williams kept his head down, and has worked hard to earn his spot on the starting team, McKinnie has not.

Coaches know better than us at the end of the day though, lets wait and see on Monday if they are right.

A+ post here, i was really hopin Mckinney would be motivated this year because no one has gotten 100% out of that cat yet and Mckinney at 50% is average so its scary if he actually had worked hard but he didn't Oher may not be your protoypical LT but he works hard and at 100% he is better than average. To me this move seems to commit more to the ground game we know Mckinney can't run block worth a shit so this makes the run game stronger with Oher on one side and KO on the other, we Yanda is mr Mauler and so was Williams in Cincy check with Ceddy Benson. It will be i believe a strong run team now.