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  1. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    The regular refs wouldn't have ruled it a fumble. It was obvious it wasn't a fumble. The ball went like 10 yards forward.
    Fumbles can't go forward?

    Everyone at the bar I was at yesterday thought it was a fumble. Once we saw the replay though, it was clear we were wrong.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #26

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    The bottom line is that you cannot control what the officials call.

    There will ALWAYS be bad calls in NFL games.

    What was in our control with the game in our hands was that absolute clusterfuck of a final drive by our offense...amateur hour by Cam/John/Joe at it's finest.




  3. #27

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    How many times have QB's like Vick and Ben completed passes while being hit like that?

    And you are COMPLETELY leaving it up to a judgemental call there. Who's to say if he wasn't getting hit/dragged down that the ball would have made it to the LOS, or even to McCoy who was standing in the corner on that side at the goal line?

    The rules are set up to try and take those judgemental calls out...that's why there is the tuck rule.

    I don't have a problem with the call, and those plays that happen like that are RARELY, if ever called intentional grounding by the other refs or whatever.
    While you are right, the whole "ball needs to get to the line of scrimmage" aspect is there to prevent a judgement call. Was he making a throwing motion? Yes. Did the ball reach the line of scrimmage? No. Was there anyone in the area? No. Therefore it's grounding. Grounding is a judgement call to begin with, so it is what it is with those penalties. It's not like the ref ever REALLY knows whether or not he meant ti INTENTIONALLY ground the ball.




  4. #28

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    The bottom line is that you cannot control what the officials call.

    There will ALWAYS be bad calls in NFL games.

    What was in our control with the game in our hands was that absolute clusterfuck of a final drive by our offense...amateur hour by Cam/John/Joe at it's finest.
    I agree 100%, the Ravens had 100 opportunities to win the game that had nothing to do with the referees.

    But the debacle with this fumble/incomplete pass/intentional grounding matters because it is such damning evidence of the quality of the officiating.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  5. #29

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    While you are right, the whole "ball needs to get to the line of scrimmage" aspect is there to prevent a judgement call. Was he making a throwing motion? Yes. Did the ball reach the line of scrimmage? No. Was there anyone in the area? No. Therefore it's grounding. Grounding is a judgement call to begin with, so it is what it is with those penalties. It's not like the ref ever REALLY knows whether or not he meant ti INTENTIONALLY ground the ball.
    How is that fair?

    If Vick is standing in the pocket, gets hit in the back as he throws and the ball flies out sideways (but forward enough to be a forward pass) and doesn't get to the LOS, is that intentional grounding? A play we all typically see 1 or 2 times a game?

    When a guy is being hit, the force of the hit can COMPLETELY change the trajectory of the throw. You can't call that intentional grounding.




  6. #30

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    When someone is dragging you to the ground as you throw the ball forward, I would like to see you throw it where you want to.

    In order to take judgement calls out of the game, that was rightly called an incomplete pass.

    No objective viewer thinks that was intentional grounding. Hell, most Ravens fans don't either.
    Huh?

    I have yet to talk to another Ravens fan who didn't see it as intentional grounding. Vick's actions were fully in accord with the NFL rulebook definition of intentional grounding:

    Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

    This wasn't even close call. I was not a bit surprised that the fumble call was reversed, but fully expected to see the intentional grounding call made after the review.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  7. #31

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Huh?

    I have yet to talk to another Ravens fan who didn't see it as intentional grounding. Vick's actions were fully in accord with the NFL rulebook definition of intentional grounding:




    This wasn't even close call. I was not a bit surprised that the fumble call was reversed, but fully expected to see the intentional grounding call made after the review.
    Yeah. I agree with you. Technically you can't throw a flag on a play that is reversed so I wasn't surprised there. However, the fact that they called it a fumble to begin with was pretty dumb.




  8. #32

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    A pee wee football ref wouldn't rule that ball a fumble. It doesn't get much clearer than that
    Unless of course you want to remove the possibility of calling it intentional grounding by calling a fumble.
    Just sayin.
    If you break the rules you can't make the rules.
    - Remove Coach Tomlin from the NFL Competition committee.




  9. #33

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Fumbles can't go forward?

    Everyone at the bar I was at yesterday thought it was a fumble. Once we saw the replay though, it was clear we were wrong.
    You all must have been doing a lot of drinking in that bar then, because I and everyone I talked to said they could see it was intentional grounding the first time. I was surprised when they said it was a fumble.




  10. #34

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    When a guy is being hit, the force of the hit can COMPLETELY change the trajectory of the throw. You can't call that intentional grounding.
    That would only really apply if there was a receiver in the vicinity, and there wasn't. He wasn't attempting to get the ball to a receiver, that was pretty clear. It should have either been called intentional grounding, or a sack.




  11. #35

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    Yesterday was a good reminder on how much we should be missing the refs currently on strike. That was an unecessary call and clearly an incomplete pass. The game dragged on way too long. The call on Jacoby was definately questionable in light of the fact that the Eagles DB were mugging our receivers all day.
    I respectfully disagree. So far the replacements have pretty much made honest mistakes. So far they have made only a couple highly questionable calls or blatant non calls that have indirectly affected the outcome of a game - Something the regular refs did pretty darn frequently in my humble opinion.

    Even yesterday, the Ravens could have gone down the field to score the winning field goal with 1:42 remaining but Mr. Flacco was too inaccurate on that drive and missed a couple of fairly easy throws.

    That doesn't totally forgive the replacements for helping put the Ravens in that position. They missed a blatant drag down PI call on a long pass to Torrie Smith that certainly looked like catchable for a big gain or a TD but the non call stopped the drive. Add to that the phony fumble/intentional grounding non call, the push off called on Jones' would-be TD catch when the defender had his hands on him the last 10 yards, and the illegal contact called when the ball was clearly in the air and should have been PI, can very definitely put a team in an offensive funk that is tough to get out of.

    But folks i implore you to search your memories. The mistakes the replacements are making now are nothing like the horrendous ticky tack calls or blatant non calls made precisely at the most critical time in the game that have directly affected the outcome of the contest by the likes of regulars Anderson, Carey, Coleman, and Winter and backed up by the NFL's yes man Mr. Perierra.

    Some of the calls and non calls by the "regulars" have been so bad they made me consider the question: "Is the NFL actually fixing games?"

    So far the mistakes made by the replacements look to be from inexperience. For the most part it looks like they are trying to stay out of the business of really affecting a game and let the players play. That of course is a fine line.

    I think we need more of a body of work to look at for the "replacements", but some of these "regulars" have screwed up enough in the most questionable fashion as to affect the integrity of the game. They need not return if and when the strike is resolved imhao.
    If you break the rules you can't make the rules.
    - Remove Coach Tomlin from the NFL Competition committee.




  12. #36

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Huh?

    I have yet to talk to another Ravens fan who didn't see it as intentional grounding. Vick's actions were fully in accord with the NFL rulebook definition of intentional grounding:




    This wasn't even close call. I was not a bit surprised that the fumble call was reversed, but fully expected to see the intentional grounding call made after the review.
    There are numerous ones in this thread and on this board T.

    And again, if Flacco for instance takes a 7 step drop that takes him 10 yards past the LOS, and gets hit while throwing the ball and the ball only goes3 or 4 yards forward, they don't call that intentional grounding because the hit impacted where the ball went.




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