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  1. #61

    Re: I actually think that this team's identity is clear



    Wicked hit on the issue. The coaching staff does not consistently show confidence in what it is doing.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  2. #62

    Re: I actually think that this team's identity is clear

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Wicked hit on the issue. The coaching staff does not consistently show confidence in what it is doing.
    Again, this is what separates our coach from being good and being great. He needs to have a sit down with Bill Parcells....




  3. #63
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    Re: What is this team's identity?

    I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian.

    In past seasons I've been right on board with the suggestion that the offense lacked an identity.

    But I'm going to state that this season, more than any time in recent memory -- perhaps going back to the Jamal Lewis hey days -- this offense has moved toward a strong identity.

    And we saw that identity in the preseason, and in week one. And we even saw them stubbornly stick to in week two. I say stubbornly because when that identity was stymied, they (Cam and Joe both) went into panic mode and kept trying the same things that were not working.

    So what's this identity I speak of? It's a more wide-open offense that more truly, finally, gets closer to the roots of the Air Coryell offense that Cam Cameron learned under Norv Turner.

    It relies more on speed at the wideout position to stretch the field and freeze the safeties, which always leaves open the threat of the deep ball or, alternatively, softens the middle of the defense to allow the straight ahead run or quick slants to the Z receiver (ie, tight end or slot guy).

    It allows the QB to make adjustments and hit what's open. It relies less on the fullback and power running, and more on a solo tailback as a downhill runner.

    The no-huddle has less to do with identity, by the way, and more to do with gaining a strategic advantage in terms of maintaining favorable match-ups and making adjustments.

    They stuck to their new identity, stubbornly, in the second half of the Eagles game. Why? And why did it fail?

    The Eagles came out in the second half and stacked the box to stop the run and asked their corners to switch to man coverage. Whether they took away the run, or whether Cam abandoned it, or whether he anticipated they'd take it away because they believed the Ravens would try to sit on the lead...who knows? Either way, it's not an identity issue, it's a strategy issue. The Eagles adjusted and the Ravens didn't counter adjust.

    The way it played out is that Torrey (especially) and Jacoby were not able to beat man coverage on the corners. A cynic may argue that the Eagles knew the scab refs had swallowed their whistles and were going to allow their corners to beat up the Ravens receivers. Either way, they stacked the run and neutralized the wide outs with tight man coverage, leaving Joe with a ton of forced throws to Pitta over the middle and Rice in the flat.

    It's easy for me to say it, because there are probably reasons I'm wrong, but my impression is that the way to beat that defense is to run a lot of trip formations and rub patterns to force the Eagles corners to back off or get badly tangled and burnt. I'm not sure why that didn't happen. In a way, Cam was guilty of sticking to their new identity, to a fault.

    No point in running play action against that defense because you are no longer trying to freeze the safeties and linebackers to open the back end. They've already given you that.

    In retrospect, it would be easy to suggest that Cam should have tried the above suggestion...or should have run a jumbo package out their with three tackles, a tight end, Leach, and run the ball at them and at least eat clock if nothing else. Regardless, my complaint isn't identity -- they finally have the talent in place to have a real identity -- as much as it is play calling.




  4. #64

    Re: What is this team's identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    In retrospect, it would be easy to suggest that Cam should have tried the above suggestion...or should have run a jumbo package out their with three tackles, a tight end, Leach, and run the ball at them and at least eat clock if nothing else. Regardless, my complaint isn't identity -- they finally have the talent in place to have a real identity -- as much as it is play calling.
    Precisely.

    You don't need an identity to win games. You just need the right play at the right time, and you need execution of that play.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  5. #65
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    Re: What is this team's identity?

    I would say you need both. You need to know what you want to do and know you have the personnel to do it. The good news is that I think they've finally achieved that. Because once the season starts, you can't start looking to develop an identity. All that has to happen in the offseason.

    The bad news is that they failed to adjust when their go-to plan was thwarted. But that's something that can be corrected fairly quickly -- at least you have to believe it should be correctable.




  6. #66

    Re: What is this team's identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I would say you need both. You need to know what you want to do and know you have the personnel to do it. The good news is that I think they've finally achieved that. Because once the season starts, you can't start looking to develop an identity. All that has to happen in the offseason.

    The bad news is that they failed to adjust when their go-to plan was thwarted. But that's something that can be corrected fairly quickly -- at least you have to believe it should be correctable.
    Hmm, well. I'm not sure what if any difference there is between that definition of "identity" and "having a plan for a particular game," but ok.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  7. #67

    Re: What is this team's identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I would say you need both. You need to know what you want to do and know you have the personnel to do it. The good news is that I think they've finally achieved that. Because once the season starts, you can't start looking to develop an identity. All that has to happen in the offseason.

    The bad news is that they failed to adjust when their go-to plan was thwarted. But that's something that can be corrected fairly quickly -- at least you have to believe it should be correctable.
    Because Obi-Reid-Kenobi waved his GIANT play card at our entire coaching staff and said "These are not the plays you are looking for."




  8. #68
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    Re: What is this team's identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Because Obi-Reid-Kenobi waved his GIANT play card at our entire coaching staff and said "These are not the plays you are looking for."
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  9. #69
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    Re: What is this team's identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    Hmm, well. I'm not sure what if any difference there is between that definition of "identity" and "having a plan for a particular game," but ok.
    Identity refers to choosing a style of play, having the type of players in place who fit that style of play, sticking to an offensive philosophy, etc. Their identity under Billick and Cavanaugh was very different than their identity today.

    Then there is game planning for a particular opponent and making in-game adjustments to what the defense is presenting you. In other words, play calling. They are very much two different things, although play calling is dictated somewhat by identity.

    I'll use a baseball analogy regarding pitching. A pitcher is a certain "type," which might include a power pitcher...a finesse nibbler....a crafty lefty...a submariner...a knuckleballer...whatever. That's like the identity of an NFL offense.

    There is not a right or wrong identity, but it's still important to have an identity: you do have to know what you want to do, make sure your talent is a fit for that style of play, and a focus on perfecting that style.

    In past years I didn't think the Ravens had players who fit their supposed style, and I didn't think they committed to a style, or they were too afraid of letting their quarterback really commit to it.

    I don't think that's the case now.

    Continuing the baseball analogy, on top of establishing a style, there is deciding what pitch to throw to certain batters in what counts...making adjustments when you aren't commanding certain pitches....reacting when batters are sitting on certain pitches, etc. That's just like game planning and play calling in football, but it occurs within the context of what type of pitcher or offense you are. You aren't going to suddenly start throwing knuckleballs if you are a power pitcher.

    I think the Ravens have figured out who they are and it matches the talent they have on the roster. But watching Cam call plays -- at least against the Eagles -- is like watching a young, dumb pitcher who doesn't have a sense of what the opponent is doing and stubbornly insists on continuing to throw his fastball, convinced that they can't hit it when clearly they are knocking it all over the park.




  10. #70

    Re: What is this team's identity? (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    It's easy to chalk up bad play to Cam, Flacco, Harbs, Dean Pees, etc.

    However, after a few days to really think about it and read some of the media coverage I think that the consistency issues run a lot deeper than just the above mentioned.

    This team, especially the offense, has no identity. They don't know what they want to do. Sometimes they want to pass a lot, other times they want to be conservative and traditional, they want Flacco to be the focal point, no wait...they want Rice to be the focal point...

    Defensively, according to Ray Lewis' comments, Dean Pees is still trying to figure out what type of schemes he wants to run.

    Folks, this team has had an identity crisis for a few years now (lots of NFL pundits and analysts said this last year) and it continues into this season.

    They really need to figure out what they want to do and just go with it. This back and forth is just perpetuating inconsistency across the board.
    Catch 22 here. If we figure out what we want to do then Cam and Dan Pees will be accused of being stubborn or conservative. On the offensive side of the ball I don't care whether we run the ball or pass it, I just want our coaches to make better in game adjustments that's all




  11. #71
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    Re: What is this team's identity? (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    Catch 22 here. If we figure out what we want to do then Cam and Dan Pees will be accused of being stubborn or conservative. On the offensive side of the ball I don't care whether we run the ball or pass it, I just want our coaches to make better in game adjustments that's all
    I certainly agree that adjustments need to be better. No doubt about it.

    However, if they feel that the best scheme for the offense or defense is conservative, then fine, but go with that and don't do this switch-a-roo midway through the game.

    It just seems like no one is really sure what they want to do. Conservative offense/defense may not win games, but it also has won a lot of games in the past. That said, indecisiveness DEFINITELY won't win games.
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  12. #72
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    Teams change offensive strategy for the second half all the time to negate any defensive adjustments. I'm not sure that happened here, I dunno. Part of the reason could've been to give the D a blow and keep them off the field a while
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