Mcnair couldn't win in the rain and Flacco can't win on the road...

[Haloti92]

So you have no idea what you're talking about?

http://www.ravenspr.com/player_bios/joe_flacco.pdf

Among all NFL quarterbacks since 2008, Flacco has produced
22 total road wins (including playoffs), second to only Eli
Manning (23)

That stat took me all of two seconds to look up. Before speaking, research.

Leaving aside the argument about getting wins despite struggling, the problem with this number is that it is simply a result of Joe playing many more road games than other QBs over that time.

Looking at winning percentage on the road (and at home) since 2008 (through yesterday):

Flacco: Home: 32-5 (.865) , Road: 22-21 (.512).......difference: (.353)
Eli : Home: 24-14 (.632), Road: 23-14 (.622).......difference: (.010)
Peyton: Home: 23-7 (.767) , Road: 18-10 (.643).......difference: (.124)
Brady : Home: 28-4 (.875) , Road: 16-12 (.571).......difference: (.304)
BigBen: Home: 28-7 (.800) , Road: 20-14 (.588).......difference: (.212)
Brees : Home: 29-9 (.763) , Road: 21-15 (.583).......difference: (.180)
Rodgers: Home: 26-9 (.743) , Road: 22-17 (.564).......difference: (.179)
Rivers : Home: 24-13 (.649) , Road: 18-18 (.500).......difference: (.149)
Romo : Home: 18-11 (.621) , Road: 14-16 (.467)......difference: (.154)


Flacco has the largest drop off on the road of anyone, though Brady is somewhat close. Flacco has the 3rd lowest road win percentage, ahead of only Romo and Rivers who simply win less games overall (home and away) on their respective, worse teams.

While I agree that the statement that "Flacco can't win on the road" is hyperbole to the point of silliness, I completely disagree with the premise that Flacco is some kind of Road Warrior; I also think that stat about 2nd most total road wins is misleading when looking at road efficiency.

[pslholder96]

Wait, the bengals have James Bond at QB? How can they lose?

Oops. Good Catch

[Sirdowski]

No.

Ray Rice was set up on the left side and should have blocked any free runner from the left. Instead, he cut ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE FIELD to chip block on the right. Now, if Flacco made that protection call, that's on him. That's unlikely--usually a back/TE lined up in the backfield will "play sides" and block anyone who blitzes that side, if no one comes they should leak out to the flat for a dumpoff. That's the usual MO for that situation.

The qualifiers from this post:

"Usually" "should" "unlikely" "usual"

Juss sayin'

If Rice screwed up his assignment, and Joe saw him go to the strong side instead of the weak, why would he completely ignore the weakside rusher? If he adjusted so that rice would block the weak side, surely seeing Rice go to the strong side would alert him that there's a free rusher coming. That's why Rice was told to block weak side to begin with. This is all "if" but the point still remains.

It just seems more like Joe guessed wrong.

[Sirdowski]

No need to resort to childishness. I knew exactly where you coming from but when you cite Timthoy Dalton as your counterarguement that's when you should have put those crayons away. I don't recall Dalton ever being backed up towards his own endzone like Joe so let's talk identical circumstances before we bring in another "Hey that QB would have done it differently" nonsense.

Your obviously just too distracted by the Dalton reference to get the point.

[pslholder96]

Leaving aside the argument about getting wins despite struggling, the problem with this number is that it is simply a result of Joe playing many more road games than other QBs over that time.

Looking at winning percentage on the road (and at home) since 2008 (through yesterday):

Flacco: Home: 32-5 (.865) , Road: 22-21 (.512).......difference: (.353)
Eli : Home: 24-14 (.632), Road: 23-14 (.622).......difference: (.010)
Peyton: Home: 23-7 (.767) , Road: 18-10 (.643).......difference: (.124)
Brady : Home: 28-4 (.875) , Road: 16-12 (.571).......difference: (.304)
BigBen: Home: 28-7 (.800) , Road: 20-14 (.588).......difference: (.212)
Brees : Home: 29-9 (.763) , Road: 21-15 (.583).......difference: (.180)
Rodgers: Home: 26-9 (.743) , Road: 22-17 (.564).......difference: (.179)
Rivers : Home: 24-13 (.649) , Road: 18-18 (.500).......difference: (.149)
Romo : Home: 18-11 (.621) , Road: 14-16 (.467)......difference: (.154)


Flacco has the largest drop off on the road of anyone, though Brady is somewhat close. Flacco has the 3rd lowest road win percentage, ahead of only Romo and Rivers who simply win less games overall (home and away) on their respective, worse teams.

While I agree that the statement that "Flacco can't win on the road" is hyperbole to the point of silliness, I completely disagree with the premise that Flacco is some kind of Road Warrior; I also think that stat about 2nd most total road wins is misleading when looking at road efficiency.

Good breakdown there. I knew he was up in there in terms of total wins but didn't know how it stacked up against other QBs. Where did you get those stats? Would love to see Flacco's QB rating, home and away since 2008

[Kevlar]

"Wins" are a silly metric to rate an individual player by in the first place. Especially "road playoff wins".

The good teams don't even have road playoff games to start with.

Flaccos numbers are certainly inflated from a lot more appearances on wild card weekend than most of the good QBs make. That "wins" are really the only stat he can hang his hat on don't speak strongly for him being anything more than a mediocre QB, especially since he has never won an AFCCG or the Superbowl.

Not saying that is the end all be all either, but if people want to say wins are all that matters then winning the big games should weigh more heavily. Its still a stupid metric to rate a QB on.

[pslholder96]

Your obviously just too distracted by the Dalton reference to get the point.

Your obviously too distracted to realize that there's not a single QB in this league that possesses eyes in the back of their heads. Flacco never had a chance on that play.

[pslholder96]

"Wins" are a silly metric to rate an individual player by in the first place. Especially "road playoff wins".

The good teams don't even have road playoff games to start with.

Flaccos numbers are certainly inflated from a lot more appearances on wild card weekend than most of the good QBs make. That "wins" are really the only stat he can hang his hat on don't speak strongly for him being anything more than a mediocre QB, especially since he has never won an AFCCG or the Superbowl.

Not saying that is the end all be all either, but if people want to say wins are all that matters then winning the big games should weigh more heavily. Its still a stupid metric to rate a QB on.

Says the guy who doesn't equate "wildcard" with playoffs.........

[JohnBKistler]

"Wins" are a silly metric to rate an individual player by in the first place. Especially "road playoff wins".

The good teams don't even have road playoff games to start with.

Like the Super Bowl champion Giants, who had to win 2-of-3 on the road to get to the Super Bowl?
Or the champion Packers the year before, who had to win 3 straight road playoff games to get to the Super Bowl?

[Haloti92]

Good breakdown there. I knew he was up in there in terms of total wins but didn't know how it stacked up against other QBs. Where did you get those stats? Would love to see Flacco's QB rating, home and away since 2008

I just ran through PFR's results pages for each guy for the last 4 years, using only the games they played (other than Flacco and Eli, everyone else missed at least a couple games, and obviously there were a full seasons missed by Brady and Peyton)

I do have Joe's road stats and QB rating per season, but haven't done the home stats yet. The road stats are (from 2008 on top, down to 3 games of 2012 so far at bottom, totals per season to right, career total at very bottom):

COMP ATT YDS TD INT
16 31 192 1 0
28 38 241 0 3
17 23 232 1 0
17 29 248 2 0
15 23 185 2 0
20 33 164 1 2
19 29 280 2 0
17 25 149 1 0
9 23 135 0 0
11 22 161 1 0
13 30 141 0 3
182 306 2128 11 8 = 81.7 11 gms

17 26 190 2 1
27 47 264 2 1
28 43 385 2 0
18 32 195 0 2
13 18 155 0 0
15 36 137 1 3
13 25 166 2 1
11 19 102 0 0
4 10 34 0 1
20 35 189 0 2
166 291 1817 9 11 = 70.2 10 gms

20 38 248 0 1
17 39 154 1 4
24 37 256 1 1
27 35 285 2 0
22 34 215 3 1
24 33 301 1 0
22 33 235 2 0
12 19 102 2 1
25 34 265 2 0
16 30 125 1 1
209 332 2186 15 9 = 85.7 10 gms

15 32 197 1 2
27 48 389 3 0
21 38 137 1 1
28 47 300 1 0
29 52 255 1 1
10 23 158 0 0
23 34 226 2 2
15 19 130 1 0
22 36 306 2 1
190 329 2098 12 7 = 80.1 9 gms

22 42 232 1 1
13 27 187 0 1
21 43 147 1 2
56 112 566 2 4 = 55.9 3 gms


803 1370 8795 49 39 = 77.7 43 games

[Kevlar]

Says the guy who doesn't equate "wildcard" with playoffs.........

No I'm just saying people who tout Joe's playoff record as proof of him being the second coming are a bit misguided. Joe is a decent QB. He is good enough to help his team get to the playoffs. Once there he has been shakey and the team has bailed him out more than once. He has some playoff wins, but not against the stronger teams, and the wins weren't due to any kind of superhuman performance by Flacco.

Too many people want to grasp at anything they can to say Joe is a great QB when in reality he has been a little above average.

[pslholder96]

No I'm just saying people who tout Joe's playoff record as proof of him being the second coming are a bit misguided. Joe is a decent QB. He is good enough to help his team get to the playoffs. Once there he has been shakey and the team has bailed him out more than once. He has some playoff wins, but not against the stronger teams, and the wins weren't due to any kind of superhuman performance by Flacco.

Too many people want to grasp at anything they can to say Joe is a great QB when in reality he has been a little above average.

I get it but at the end of the day like it or not wins is the biggest parameter in evaluating all QBs. All other stats can be used to supplement the arguement for or against the QB in question. Joe is certainly not elite but definately a notch below wherever that falls. I'll say this much. He's been the greatest QB we've had thus far in our relatively short history so if we're grasping at straws it's because we are starving to cheer for a potentially elite QB.

[Sirdowski]

Your obviously too distracted to realize that there's not a single QB in this league that possesses eyes in the back of their heads. Flacco never had a chance on that play.

Rudctio ad absurdum.

This is literally a textbook example.

Your use of fallacious logic is masterful. However it makes talking to you useless.

Good day sir.

[pslholder96]

Rudctio ad absurdum.

This is literally a textbook example.

Your use of fallacious logic is masterful. However it makes talking to you useless.

Good day sir.

And good day to you sir

[Kevlar]

I get it but at the end of the day like it or not wins is the biggest parameter in evaluating all QBs. All other stats can be used to supplement the arguement for or against the QB in question. Joe is certainly not elite but definately a notch below wherever that falls. I'll say this much. He's been the greatest QB we've had thus far in our relatively short history so if we're grasping at straws it's because we are starving to cheer for a potentially elite QB.

I really do want to see Joe be great. I think he can be great. I just don't think he has been there yet. Its a shame too because a little bit better play from Joe and the Ravens might have another Lombardi Trophy. That isn't a knock on Joe, its just reality.

Now the team looks like a shadow of what it was just a year or two ago. So the Ravens window might just be closing.

[Whitty Hutton]

The part I hate most about road Flacco is when the going gets tough you can literally see his mind and soul vacate his body. He throws successive incomplete passes or batted balls and have that blank look in his eyes. He doesn't blink, say anything or show any sign of life. He just lethargically move to the huddle and line like a sloth that had sleeping pills and Thanksgiving dinner

[Wacco flacco flame]

lowest ever QBR rating 0.3 Joe Flacco

[pslholder96]

The part I hate most about road Flacco is when the going gets tough you can literally see his mind and soul vacate his body. He throws successive incomplete passes or batted balls and have that blank look in his eyes. He doesn't blink, say anything or show any sign of life. He just lethargically move to the huddle and line like a sloth that had sleeping pills and Thanksgiving dinner

Good Observation. His demeanor does change when things get tough. It's so obvious.

[Corey]

The part I hate most about road Flacco is when the going gets tough you can literally see his mind and soul vacate his body. He throws successive incomplete passes or batted balls and have that blank look in his eyes. He doesn't blink, say anything or show any sign of life. He just lethargically move to the huddle and line like a sloth that had sleeping pills and Thanksgiving dinner

I commented on this in the game day thread. The way he was out their just sailing passes, it really just looked like he wanted to get the hell off the field as quickly as possible. There was no fight in him yesterday.

[bmorecareful]

The qualifiers from this post:

"Usually" "should" "unlikely" "usual"

Juss sayin'

If Rice screwed up his assignment, and Joe saw him go to the strong side instead of the weak, why would he completely ignore the weakside rusher? If he adjusted so that rice would block the weak side, surely seeing Rice go to the strong side would alert him that there's a free rusher coming. That's why Rice was told to block weak side to begin with. This is all "if" but the point still remains.

It just seems more like Joe guessed wrong.

You begin by acknowledging, correctly, that my explanation is only "likely," and not "undoubtedly correct."

By the end of your post, somehow the OPPOSITE explanation has become "more like(ly)." How in the world did you get there? You somehow extrapolated that because Rice "screwed up," it actually becomes JOE'S fault! Joe is supposed to recognize that because Rice went right, he should somehow be "alerted" that a blitzer was coming from the left. How in the world does that make sense? If Rice came off the left side to block right, if I'm the QB I assume it's because there was nobody to block on the left.

I know how--you've made up your mind on this issue before you've even begun to talk about it. You're doing your signature a disservice!