Mcnair couldn't win in the rain and Flacco can't win on the road...

**JohnBKistler** · 10-22-2012, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Kevlar

I really do want to see Joe be great. I think he can be great. I just don't think he has been there yet. Its a shame too because a little bit better play from Joe and the Ravens might have another Lombardi Trophy. That isn't a knock on Joe, its just reality.

I don't think Flacco is "elite", I agree with the "notch, or two, below great." Although it would have been nice to have this conversation if a certain WR not dropped a perfectly thrown pass, versus a another receiver who caught a pass that was wildly thrown up for grabs against his helmet.

**bmorecareful** · 10-22-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Wacco flacco flame

lowest ever QBR rating 0.3 Joe Flacco

Nobody is disputing that Joe had a bad game. I don't think it was literally the worst game a QB has had in the past 5 years, as ESPN is implying; I'm not even sure it was his worst game ever individually. But it was a bad, bad game.

The point is, probably moreso than any other position in football, a QB's performance is very dependent on those around him. Joe is not, and may never be, capable of individually overcoming the failures of everyone around him on offense--and that's what happened yesterday. The ONLY player on offense who seemed to be having any success was Ray Rice, and a combination of Cam forgetting about him and being down 2 scores most of the game removed him from the equation.

The corollary to that point is that the Ravens have now become a team where they CANNOT overcome Joe having a bad game. In the past, through a combination of defense and a great rushing attack, the Ravens could survive a bad performance from Joe--no longer.

**Sirdowski** · 10-22-2012, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

You begin by acknowledging, correctly, that my explanation is only "likely," and not "undoubtedly correct."

By the end of your post, somehow the OPPOSITE explanation has become "more like(ly)." How in the world did you get there? You somehow extrapolated that because Rice "screwed up," it actually becomes JOE'S fault! Joe is supposed to recognize that because Rice went right, he should somehow be "alerted" that a blitzer was coming from the left. How in the world does that make sense? If Rice came off the left side to block right, if I'm the QB I assume it's because there was nobody to block on the left.

I know how--you've made up your mind on this issue before you've even begun to talk about it. You're doing your signature a disservice!

If Ray took the wrong assignment (thus screwing up) Wouldn't Joe take notice, considering he expected rice to block a free rusher? I'm not saying it's necessarily Joe's fault that rice possibly screwed up, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he compounded Rices screw up.

Or maybe he didn't screw up and it was just the wrong guess on what the protection should be.

I've taken a position on what I believed happened. I think it's safe to say you've done the same. Quit moralizing like your approaching it with any more objectivity. Your speculation weighs as much as mine.

**RedSkins Fury** · 10-22-2012, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Sirdowski

I've taken a position on what I believed happened. I think it's safe to say you've done the same. Quit moralizing like your approaching it with any more objectivity. Your speculation weighs as much as mine.

Wait.... you haven't played or coached football at the NFL level like everyone else here has? If you haven't, you opinion is invalid and you are a troll, bandwagoneer and a retard.

**SugarRay52** · 10-22-2012, 05:14 PM

I wish the Ravens would go 16-0 every year then these stupid threads wouldn't exist, then again some people
just can't help but complain about every little thing.

**Terpsfan82** · 10-22-2012, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by SugarRay52

I wish the Ravens would go 16-0 every year then these stupid threads wouldn't exist, then again some people
just can't help but complain about every little thing.

So getting waxed by 30 points after displaying disturbing trends on both sides of the ball and having a coaching staff with their collective heads up their anuses is a "little" thing? This team is in trouble, bud.

**lobachevsky** · 10-22-2012, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by highwater

Flacco had a very bad game, no doubt, but blaming that safety on him is a stretch to say the least. He didn't have a chance on that play. Pass protection was poor most of the game but that play was the worst.

Saw this in King's MMQB today:

Originally Posted by Connor Barwin, Texans OLB

"I think spying Rice helped. We did that on a lot of third downs because we knew Flacco liked to go to him so much on third down.''

Re the safety, IIRC someone said that Barwin "didn't look like he was coming." Likely he wasn't--he was there to spy Rice, but when Rice moved to the other side of the formation because the other OLB, Brooks Reid, looked to be blitzing, Barwin had no responsibility & a free run at Flacco. In fact, it smells like that was the setup on that play--whichever LB was nearer Rice spied him & the other blitzed. Another wrinkle that opponents will copy & the Ravens will need to counter.

**Whitty Hutton** · 10-22-2012, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by SugarRay52

I wish the Ravens would go 16-0 every year then these stupid threads wouldn't exist, then again some people
just can't help but complain about every little thing.

wtf?
Ravens have been looking bad for weeks now in different aspects of the game even though they got lucky wins because of other team screw-ups. The suckiness came to a creshendo(sp?) yesterday. They got a mudhole stomped in them, and you still wanna stay in homer mode and pretend everything is just fine?

**darb72** · 10-22-2012, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

Good breakdown there. I knew he was up in there in terms of total wins but didn't know how it stacked up against other QBs. Where did you get those stats? Would love to see Flacco's QB rating, home and away since 2008

I didn't see the original quote because Squeeler trolls are put on ignore, but from what I see the troll listed the home vs. away stats for eight probowl QBs, four (maybe five) of which are going to the HOF.

We've already seen how often Joe has to play against top 10 defenses, so figure half of those are on the road.

The original troll who started this thread, and all his little troll buddies, get off on trying to bash Flacco. Meanwhile real Ravens' fans are happy to have such a talented QB leading us to a lot more victories than losses.

**darb72** · 10-22-2012, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Whitty Hutton

wtf?
Ravens have been looking bad for weeks now in different aspects of the game even though they got lucky wins because of other team screw-ups. The suckiness came to a creshendo(sp?) yesterday. They got a mudhole stomped in them, and you still wanna stay in homer mode and pretend everything is just fine?

I understand that trolls, by their very nature, have a limited amount of brain power to use but you do realize the Ravens are 5-2, having played only one team with a losing record.

At least try to make your trolling interesting next time. Thanks.

**ballhawk** · 10-22-2012, 10:00 PM

So...

criticism=trolling?

LOL

As for the premise of this thread:

Flacco is the only QB in NFL history to win 4 road playoff games in his first three years in the league, isn't he?

**Corey** · 10-22-2012, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Nobody is disputing that Joe had a bad game. I don't think it was literally the worst game a QB has had in the past 5 years, as ESPN is implying; I'm not even sure it was his worst game ever individually. But it was a bad, bad game.

The point is, probably moreso than any other position in football, a QB's performance is very dependent on those around him. Joe is not, and may never be, capable of individually overcoming the failures of everyone around him on offense--and that's what happened yesterday. The ONLY player on offense who seemed to be having any success was Ray Rice, and a combination of Cam forgetting about him and being down 2 scores most of the game removed him from the equation.

The corollary to that point is that the Ravens have now become a team where they CANNOT overcome Joe having a bad game. In the past, through a combination of defense and a great rushing attack, the Ravens could survive a bad performance from Joe--no longer.

If ESPN said that they are continuing to prove just what idiots they are. Thats not even close to the worst performance by a QB in the last 5 years. That wasn't even Flaccos worst performance of his career.

**ballhawk** · 10-22-2012, 10:44 PM

Mark Sanchez's performance against the Ravens in Baltimore last year (2011) was the worst Qb'ing i have seen in the last five years.

**Corey** · 10-22-2012, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

Mark Sanchez's performance against the Ravens in Baltimore last year (2011) was the worst Qb'ing i have seen in the last five years.

That was bad. But Romo threw 5 int's (two were pick 6) vs. the Bears a few weeks ago. That was a dreadful game.

Flacco's worst career performance had to be that game vs the Bengals in 2010(?).

**Kevlar** · 10-23-2012, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

Mark Sanchez's performance against the Ravens in Baltimore last year (2011) was the worst Qb'ing i have seen in the last five years.

Anthony Wright, who for some god awful reason we signed later, had the worst game I'd ever seen against the ravens. I forget what year it was, but he was playing for Dallas and he was horrible.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 10-23-2012, 07:28 AM

From what I've seen from Joe so far in his career, it has reinforced my belief that his closes comparison is Matt Schaub.

And that's not bad at all. Nothing is wrong with that.

I just think his contract needs to be more in line with Schaubs (given some extra considering the age difference).

**RedSkins Fury** · 10-23-2012, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

Flacco is the only QB in NFL history to win 4 road playoff games in his first three years in the league, isn't he?

C'mon.... man.

Yes he is. But lets get real... we all watched those games. We've all seen the stats. Real Ravens fans know the reality of each and every nuance of those 4 games. Lets reword the phrase of "Flacco is the only QB in NFL history to win 4 road playoff games in his first three years in the league" to something a little more accurate...

"The Ravens are the only team in NFL history to win 4 road playoff games with a QB playing in his first three years in the league".... Because at least 3/4 of those games were won with great defense, a great running game, average QB play at best, and some very fortunate bounces of the ball in our direction.

Here are the stats from those games.
@ Miami. 9/23, 135 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT.
@ Tenn. 11/22, 148 yards, 1 TD.
@ NE. 4/10, 34 yds. 1 INT.
@ KC. 25/34, 265 yards, 2 TD.

**HoustonRaven** · 10-23-2012, 08:36 AM

So you've become that desperate to prove your point you leave games out of your analysis? He did pretty damn good IN NEW ENGLAND last year.

Sad.

I see what you're doing though. Judging by your post history, you like to always stir the pot so I suppose that's something. If you wish to keep trying to fit that square peg in that round hole, who am I to stop you?

**bmorecareful** · 10-23-2012, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by RedSkins Fury

C'mon.... man.

Yes he is. But lets get real... we all watched those games. We've all seen the stats. Real Ravens fans know the reality of each and every nuance of those 4 games. Lets reword the phrase of "Flacco is the only QB in NFL history to win 4 road playoff games in his first three years in the league" to something a little more accurate...

"The Ravens are the only team in NFL history to win 4 road playoff games with a QB playing in his first three years in the league".... Because at least 3/4 of those games were won with great defense, a great running game, average QB play at best, and some very fortunate bounces of the ball in our direction.

Here are the stats from those games.
@ Miami. 9/23, 135 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT.
@ Tenn. 11/22, 148 yards, 1 TD.
@ NE. 4/10, 34 yds. 1 INT.
@ KC. 25/34, 265 yards, 2 TD.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but the Ravens had great defense, a great running game, and good luck (particularly in collecting turnovers) for a decade before Flacco arrived. They don't have a whole lot to show for it outside of the 2000 run, especially on the road.

From 1996 to 2007, they had 3 road playoff wins. In the 4 years from 08-11, they have 4. Call it what you will, but SOMETHING has changed--and that SOMETHING is stability at the QB position, even if his stats have been poor in some of those wins (and stats don't always tell the whole picture--the Ravens don't win @Tenn in 2008 without Flacco, IMO)

Flacco's play also seems to be trending upward in the playoffs, beginning with the KC game. He was great in that game, not as bad as the stats seem vs. the Steelers, and obviously did more than enough to win vs. the Pats last year.

**RedSkins Fury** · 10-23-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

So you've become that desperate to prove your point you leave games out of your analysis? He did pretty damn good IN NEW ENGLAND last year.

Sad.

I see what you're doing though. Judging by your post history, you like to always stir the pot so I suppose that's something. If you wish to keep trying to fit that square peg in that round hole, who am I to stop you?

Woahhhh... In my original posting of those stats on Page 3 of this thread I posted everything. I even highlighted his great games in Red! You are taking my post out of context. I was responding to a specific point. The point that he was the Fist QB in NFL history to win 4 road games in the playoffs. That's why I posted those 4 games. Because that poster was posting it as some amazing feat and stat line... which it wasn't.

Link:
http://russellstreetreport.com/forum...867#post507867