Time for some in house changes?

**leachisabeast** · 10-22-2012, 09:18 AM

Whether it happens now (probably not a wise idea) or in the offseason, it has become apparent that the current system has held us back from consistent performance, and now even the defensive system has fallen to bits which could even cost us a play off birth this year. The defense has bailed us out in the past and got us far in the play offs, but that can only work for so long, and it's hard to win a SB playing that that way. It has now caught up with us, and the offense has failed so far to consistently carry us now that the defense has finally lost a major step (which was bound to happen eventually).

The drunken Oline (Andy Moeller) coach seriously needs to go. Ever since he's been here, our Oline has had some serious fundamental issues for the past 2 or 3 years. We had one of the best Olines in Flaccos first two years in the league, and now it's gone to shit. It's not the players IMO, there are plenty of capable Olines in the league with much less talent than us. We have arguably the best guard in football, a veteran and decent center, a big strong rookie at right tackle, and even Michael Oher isn't as bad as everyone makes him out to be. I bet any money he'd look better playing on the Patriots Oline. We ran a straight up power run scheme up front which worked very well with our line, then this new coach tries adopting the ZBS, but we just don't have the guys to run that scheme. They are all maulers (apart from Matt Birk).

We have the talent to be much better and more consistent up front, but our coach has failed to do that, so I think it's time for a change. Some have mentioned the Philly DC as a possible candidate as he was an Oline coach before becoming the DC. The WR coach has done a terrible job developing our WR's, I'm not sure how long he's been here, but our WR's still have serious separation issues, even though we have an emerging talent in Torrey, and a really solid veteran in AnQuan Boldin. Both would look better playing in the Patriots or Packers offense, they need to get separation on a much more consistent basis.

Then the main culprit Cam Cameron, who is the most puzzling OC in the league. I have been a semi defender of Cam up to this point, and many doomsday posters here would argue and say that he's fine and all, and it's just the players. I kind of find that hard to believe with the talent we have. Why the fuck does he forget about Rice when we go behind by one score? And why does he forget about Flacco when we are up by only one score? There is NO happy medium with him, no consistency, and no adjustments. We need a brand new offensive system, and a system that gets the best out of all our players playing to their strengths. Norv isn't the answer, we need to get away from the Coryell offense, it's not a good fit for todays NFL.

I wont get onto the defense because it's the first time we've been poor, and it wont be that hard to fix the defense in the offseason, I think it's more on the players rather than the system or the coaches on the D side.

What say you? What needs to change?

No the sky isn't falling at 5-2, but I have a hard time believing we have a shot at the SB with the way we're playing. Just making the play offs simply isn't good enough anymore.

**rharris1986** · 10-22-2012, 09:32 AM

Harbaughs a good head coach. The others need to go - beginning with Cam. Cam is an albatross hanging around the neck of the offense.

This team will not make the playoffs - in which case Cam will be gone - just like he should have last January. If you remember the news reports he expressed some surprised at not being replaced. When you think that about yourself you can only conclude that the people who think you're wrong about yourself are in fact delusional - and maybe don't really know as much as they would have you believe.

**DrUnk** · 10-22-2012, 09:43 AM

Harbs needs to grow a set, and get in his coaches faces when they are calling a bad game.

**Kevlar** · 10-22-2012, 09:45 AM

It would have been nice to see Pees go over and cold cock Cameron.

**pslholder96** · 10-22-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Kevlar

It would have been nice to see Pees go over and cold cock Cameron.

Now that would have been hilarious......

**SeattleRaven** · 10-22-2012, 11:21 AM

I wish Harbs had the balls to smack Cameron and then tell Joe to fire up the offense on the sidelines instead of sitting by himself on the bench. This team needs some fire from the top and I am just not seeing it week to week.

Fire Cameron as soon as possible.

**NCRAVEN** · 10-22-2012, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by rharris1986

Harbaughs a good head coach. The others need to go - beginning with Cam. Cam is an albatross hanging around the neck of the offense.

Originally Posted by DrUnk

Harbs needs to grow a set, and get in his coaches faces when they are calling a bad game.

And add Terryl Austin to the list who tells our CB's to play off coverage.

**wickedsolo** · 10-22-2012, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by DrUnk

Harbs needs to grow a set, and get in his coaches faces when they are calling a bad game.

Just curious, but how can you even claim to know what goes on behind closed doors?

We all know the Ravens organization from top to bottom is one of the most tight lipped orgs that exist in pro sports...why would Harbs ever get in Cam's face or Dean's face on the sidelines, berate them publicly, and expect to still have a job?

Everyone can rant and rave all they want about how poor Harbs is at handling his coordinators, but not one single person on this forum knows what goes on in the locker room, in the meeting room, and in their offices.

Harbs knows what the problems are. A lot of these issues can't be fixed over night and some of them can't and won't be fixed/addressed until next off-season.

**ravenjoe** · 10-22-2012, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by DrUnk

Harbs needs to grow a set, and get in his coaches faces when they are calling a bad game.

And in the players faces when they demonstrate a lack of discipline on the field!!

**wickedsolo** · 10-23-2012, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by ravenjoe

And in the players faces when they demonstrate a lack of discipline on the field!!

Pay attention to the sidelines. He does that.

Remember a couple of pre-seasons ago when Ellerbe had a pick 6 and started acting like an asshole on the field? As soon as he got off the field Harbs was in his face ripping him a new one.

When Christian Thompson got into some swings on Sunday against Houston as soon as he came off the sideline Harbs was right there saying "what the hell was that?"

**sailorsam** · 10-23-2012, 07:52 AM

I has now officially given up on Cam. get him gone. now. Billick firing Fassell was one of his best moves and it paid off. promote Caldwell. NOW.
I think Belichek was his own DC in Nengland. bottom line, the D is poor now, and it's probly a combo talent loss and coaching. I for one would love to see Rex come back but know that isn't likely. don't think they realized how much JJ and Redding were contributing; or maybe they figured the O was ready to light it up. maybe they still will; Hst has a good D.
let's face it, no one here wants 10-6 and a brief playoff run. That's Norv Turner territory.

**Corey** · 10-22-2012, 09:56 AM

Saying the Ravens won't make the playoffs is a stretch. Let's not get carried away. It's very likely that we go 4-0 or either 3-1 the rest of the way at home. Which means we need just two road wins to get to 10-6, with Cleveland on the schedule that's already one. The Ravens will find away to win another or two to get in. After that it's anyone's ball game. I am not conceding the division, the playoffs, or the Superbowl over one game. Every loss counts the same and we were not going to go undefeated.

Having said that I am really tired of Cam's system. I want to see what this offense could do if they moved away from Air Coryell a little bit and did what most offense do, mix it up. Cam has had his chance to make this offense a consistent threat and he hasn't done it. Maybe you don't immediately kick him to the curb, but I think we need to bring in someone who would give us the option to do so. Wouldn't have minded seeing Hue return but I know he and Harbs are not the best of friends. Joe Flacco will soon be a 100+ million dollar investment. The Ravens need someone that can get his best out of him EVERY game.

On defense, I really want to see a younger more energetic coach. The saying is that the team takes on the personality of it's coach and we've seen that with the Ravens defense. There is a clear contrast in guys like Rex and Chuck and guys like Mattison and Pees. My concern with Pees is that at 60+ years old and having a reserved personality, how much does he really relate to these players? I am sure he's a nice guy and the players like him but can he motivate them to run through brick walls like Rex or Chuck could. Mattison couldn't and it really doesn't look like Pees can either.

For the drunk, I agree. I also think it's time to look at a new WR coach.

Edit
One more note about Pees. I really don't like the bend but don't break mentality that he brings. That is a part of the problem. The best defenses fight for every fucking yard.

**JohnBKistler** · 10-22-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Corey

One more note about Pees. I really don't like the bend but don't break mentality that he brings. That is a part of the problem. The best defenses fight for every fucking yard.

Yeah, but the Ravens don't have one of the best defenses anymore. I think Pees is trying to figure how to keep the games close and hope the offense gets going. The offense has really hung the defense out to dry the last 6 quarters, though.

**JustaslowZ06** · 10-22-2012, 10:19 AM

I've been saying Moeller needs to go ever since he was hired. But of course I got bashed last offseason because our OL was in the top 10 last year. Now maybe people will listen now that Flacco is in the bottom 5 of time allowed in the pocket.

Next up: Jim Hostler. No way do you have the names of Housh, Evans, Boldin and all had their worst years here. Not to mention the failure to evelop our drafted WR's with the exception of Torrey. This guy doesn't have the pedigree to be on this stage. Look at his accomplishments. He was the OC of the niners, of course where as soon as he left they suddenly hve a decent offense. Before that the Phins, and Jets.

As for the defense, the problem is we have Cary Willims and Jimmy Smith out there giving an aged Johnson and mediocre Walter a 10 yard cushion. And Cary has done it all year. I'm assuming that falls on Pees and needs to be changed. You don't have 2 corners over 6ft giving 10 yard cushions. Play bump and run and MAKE the QB make a throw. Jimmy bites on every double move. Thank goodness Suggs was in there or it could've been alot worse.

**NCRAVEN** · 10-22-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06

I've been saying Moeller needs to go ever since he was hired. But of course I got bashed last offseason because our OL was in the top 10 last year. Now maybe people will listen now that Flacco is in the bottom 5 of time allowed in the pocket.

Next up: Jim Hostler. No way do you have the names of Housh, Evans, Boldin and all had their worst years here. Not to mention the failure to evelop our drafted WR's with the exception of Torrey. This guy doesn't have the pedigree to be on this stage. Look at his accomplishments. He was the OC of the niners, of course where as soon as he left they suddenly hve a decent offense. Before that the Phins, and Jets.

As for the defense, the problem is we have Cary Willims and Jimmy Smith out there giving an aged Johnson and mediocre Walter a 10 yard cushion. And Cary has done it all year. I'm assuming that falls on Pees and needs to be changed. You don't have 2 corners over 6ft giving 10 yard cushions. Play bump and run and MAKE the QB make a throw. Jimmy bites on every double move. Thank goodness Suggs was in there or it could've been alot worse.

If it doesn't fall on him, it falls on the DB coach (you can hear him on 1 winning drive telling them to play off). BUT I think it's more on Pees for his bend but don't break.

Playing 10 yards off is supposed to allow you to keep from getting burned, but when Jimmy is so aggressive and ALWAYS bites on the double move - it'll kill ya.

On D we need a change in personnel i.e moving Smith to the slot and Brown outside OR a change in scheme. I just know I am tired of watching the same thing week in and week out.

**Bufflehead** · 10-22-2012, 10:26 AM

Great post. They won't fire Cam mid season which is really too bad maybe they fire Moeller (sp?). I think we go 10-6 like the poster said above maybe even win the division that way. Could lose at home or win that game and then be done. I'd feel worse, but at least we are not ruining Ray's shot at another ring because sadly he is hurt.

One thing that kills me is watching Joe just sit there and pick is nose on the sidle line while Cam stands in front of him staring into oblivion. I know they have never had a good relationship, but it boggles my mind that there does not seem to be much in game interaction between the 2 (from what I see) especially when things are going poorly.

I still believe in the guys and hope we can turn it around, but my expectations are not too high which may allow me stop hammering beers because I am so damn nervous during these road games.

**Cj34** · 10-22-2012, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Corey

Saying the Ravens won't make the playoffs is a stretch. Let's not get carried away. It's very likely that we go 4-0 or either 3-1 the rest of the way at home. Which means we need just two road wins to get to 10-6, with Cleveland on the schedule that's already one. The Ravens will find away to win another or two to get in. After that it's anyone's ball game. I am not conceding the division, the playoffs, or the Superbowl over one game. Every loss counts the same and we were not going to go undefeated.

While I'm not necessarily giving up on the season there is NO way you can automatically count any road wins, even Cleveland. Cleveland gave us a dogfight at home and with the way this team is on the road you can't count on anything except maybe that they will be inconsistent. Hopefully the bye will help with extra preparation but if the defense hasn't shown any improvement over six straight games then I'm not so sure the bye is going to be a miraculous cure.

**steelerhater** · 10-22-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by rharris1986

Harbaughs a good head coach. The others need to go - beginning with Cam. Cam is an albatross hanging around the neck of the offense.

This team will not make the playoffs - in which case Cam will be gone - just like he should have last January. If you remember the news reports he expressed some surprised at not being replaced. When you think that about yourself you can only conclude that the people who think you're wrong about yourself are in fact delusional - and maybe don't really know as much as they would have you believe.

Is he? He doesn't hold his coordinators responsible for anything. He doesn't even know what's going on in their meetings. If i were the head coach, and something was going horribly wrong, I'd get involved before the ship sank.

**wickedsolo** · 10-22-2012, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Is he? He doesn't hold his coordinators responsible for anything. He doesn't even know what's going on in their meetings. If i were the head coach, and something was going horribly wrong, I'd get involved before the ship sank.

Prove it.

What is said to the press during post-game interviews is VERY different than what happens Mon-Fri behind closed doors.

**steelerhater** · 10-22-2012, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Prove it.

What is said to the press during post-game interviews is VERY different than what happens Mon-Fri behind closed doors.

Its pretty obvious if you've been paying attention over the last 4 years. Cam can do no wrong in Harbaugh's eyes. Two years ago he said that the offense had to get better and he would take a more active role in it. Not a single thing changed for the remainder of that season nor did it change the following season. I watched the steelers last night with their (supposedly) makeshift line calling plays, such as wide-receiver screens, that made Ben successfull. If they have a bad offensive line you wouldn't know it by watching their offense.