Time for some in house changes?

[Ravenswintitle]

The time allowed in the pocket for Flacco is so bad that's the worst issue you can have, and more times than not, it's the blocking system not the players at fault for that. The players are to blame, but they are put in a system that simply doe snot suit them.

Then how was it a top 5 offense going into yesterday's game?

[Cj34]

Saying the Ravens won't make the playoffs is a stretch. Let's not get carried away. It's very likely that we go 4-0 or either 3-1 the rest of the way at home. Which means we need just two road wins to get to 10-6, with Cleveland on the schedule that's already one. The Ravens will find away to win another or two to get in. After that it's anyone's ball game. I am not conceding the division, the playoffs, or the Superbowl over one game. Every loss counts the same and we were not going to go undefeated.

While I'm not necessarily giving up on the season there is NO way you can automatically count any road wins, even Cleveland. Cleveland gave us a dogfight at home and with the way this team is on the road you can't count on anything except maybe that they will be inconsistent. Hopefully the bye will help with extra preparation but if the defense hasn't shown any improvement over six straight games then I'm not so sure the bye is going to be a miraculous cure.

[leachisabeast]

Then how was it a top 5 offense going into yesterday's game?

All of those big games on offense were at home. The Oline has actually been better than average in the games played at home (apart from the Browns game). Crowd noise seems to really affect this Oline, and the coaches need to do something to fix this as other offensive lines have coped far better on the road.

What happened to our Oline from 08 and 09 were Rice ad McGahee had huge holes to run through? Hell even LeRon McClain had 900 rushing yards, and he's a fullback. We ran a pure power run scheme then, and that's what we should be running today, none of this hybrid ZBS crap. If you want to run a ZBS, get the players that fit into it! Your not going to have that with a 36 year old playing center, or guys who weigh over 330 lbs like Bobbie Williams.

[SeattleRaven]

I wish Harbs had the balls to smack Cameron and then tell Joe to fire up the offense on the sidelines instead of sitting by himself on the bench. This team needs some fire from the top and I am just not seeing it week to week.

Fire Cameron as soon as possible.

[Corey]

All of those big games on offense were at home. The Oline has actually been better than average in the games played at home (apart from the Browns game). Crowd noise seems to really affect this Oline, and the coaches need to do something to fix this as other offensive lines have coped far better on the road.

What happened to our Oline from 08 and 09 were Rice ad McGahee had huge holes to run through? Hell even LeRon McClain had 900 rushing yards, and he's a fullback. We ran a pure power run scheme then, and that's what we should be running today, none of this hybrid ZBS crap. If you want to run a ZBS, get the players that fit into it! Your not going to have that with a 36 year old playing center, or guys who weigh over 330 lbs like Bobbie Williams.

Only one player was here both of those years and that is Yanda. The rest of that OL is gone. Oher came in 2009. In 2008, the OL looked so young and promising. Gaither, Grubbs, Brown, Yanda. And then adding Oher in 2009. Imagine if we could have kept that group healthy and together. It's amazing how quickly a unit of strength can become a major weakness.

[Dirt1]

Only one player was here both of those years and that is Yanda. The rest of that OL is gone. Oher came in 2009. In 2008, the OL looked so young and promising. Gaither, Grubbs, Brown, Yanda. And then adding Oher in 2009. Imagine if we could have kept that group healthy and together. It's amazing how quickly a unit of strength can become a major weakness.

Ray Rice had a great year last year, and the Ravens made it to within one dropped pass from making it to the Super Bowl. If they would have left the OL alone, and just replaced Grubbs with KO, they would be in much better shape right now. I would have loved to have seen them keep Grubbs, but if that wasn't possible due to the salary cap, then they actually found a gem in KO to replace him with for THIS season. Nothing is stopping them from moving Oher to LT and KO to RT next year after they have a chance to get a better LG and C in the draft or through FA.

[don raven]

People really need to look at WHY Pees left NE to begin with. Who leaves a DC job to become a LB coach? The fact of the matter is Pees was on the verge of being demoted/ fired. His contract expired and the Pats didn't want him back. I wonder why?

If Marvin gets the axe at Cinncy,bring back the architect of this defense. Move Caldwell up to OC. If Rex gets canned,bring back Dennis Thurman for DB"s and Mike Pettine fo LB'S. We've lost too many good coaches over the past few seasons and it's starting to show. We also need OL,WR and Special Teams coaches. We need an overhaul.

[camdenyard]

All of those big games on offense were at home. The Oline has actually been better than average in the games played at home (apart from the Browns game). Crowd noise seems to really affect this Oline, and the coaches need to do something to fix this as other offensive lines have coped far better on the road.

What happened to our Oline from 08 and 09 were Rice ad McGahee had huge holes to run through? Hell even LeRon McClain had 900 rushing yards, and he's a fullback. We ran a pure power run scheme then, and that's what we should be running today, none of this hybrid ZBS crap. If you want to run a ZBS, get the players that fit into it! Your not going to have that with a 36 year old playing center, or guys who weigh over 330 lbs like Bobbie Williams.

I asked you before about what fundamentals our guys were weak at, and I still haven't seen anything that pinpoints one. As a previous poster said, we had a Top 5 offense through six games. In a loud environment yesterday, did we have even one false start by an O-lineman yesterday? I don't think so. So your position is questionable.

And RE: zone blocking, we have the horses to do that. Oher, Yanda and Osemele were chosen in part because of their abilities to move laterally and get in space. OK, Birk not so much, but better than guys from the past like Bennie Anderson, Zeus, etc. when we ran a more mauling straight-ahead style.

Preston has already nailed it. It's all about speed rushers off the edge. Our tackles can't deal with them. Look who we've struggled against, they have that element for the most part. That is a talent issue, not one of fundamentals. I was fully expecting them to keep a TE or McKinnie in to max protect, but they didn't. That is to me, just being unprepared on the coaching side. They knew what the Texans brought, and they essentially ignored it. And the batted balls...damn, is there anyone that covers the NFL not aware that they do this more than any team? They didn't even try to counter that. No adjustments at all. It's talent, and it is also an excellent example of the coaching staff laying a deuce on the 50 yard line.

We don't have the flexibility to run 2 TEs in patterns against teams that can rush the passer off the edge. We need to run plays that neutralize the rush. Screens, draws, rollouts...and QUICK DEVELOPING PASS PATTERNS. This isn't fucking rocket science. Play to your strengths, not your weaknesses!

[BigPlayReceiver]

People really need to look at WHY Pees left NE to begin with. Who leaves a DC job to become a LB coach? The fact of the matter is Pees was on the verge of being demoted/ fired. His contract expired and the Pats didn't want him back. I wonder why?

What "fact" would that be?
NE's (total) defensive ranking from 2006-2009 was 6th, 4th, 10th and 11th.
Certainly, a mild downward trend, but not exactly worthy of termination, so let's not make stuff up.

I would think that if Pees was on the verge of being demoted/fired as you state then BB would have either had a successor at-the-ready or would have promoted an assistant. Well, neither one of those things happened. Instead, NE went into and through the 2010 season with no one at DC (nor at OC either as I recall).

[DonNMass]

What "fact" would that be?
NE's (total) defensive ranking from 2006-2009 was 6th, 4th, 10th and 11th.
Certainly, a mild downward trend, but not exactly worthy of termination, so let's not make stuff up.

I would think that if Pees was on the verge of being demoted/fired as you state then BB would have either had a successor at-the-ready or would have promoted an assistant. Well, neither one of those things happened. Instead, NE went into and through the 2010 season with no one at DC (nor at OC either as I recall).

I can read that as Belichek saying that having Pees is about the same as having no DC at all.

[lobachevsky]

If the fundamental issue is communication amongst the OL then shuffling the players around isn't likely to improve things quickly. But if there's any thought of trying that now's the time--if they can tiptoe past the Browns they can probably beat the Raiders & arrive in Pittsburgh with 4 weeks of practice & 2 games to settle in.

I get the feeling that part of the problem on the road is that the OL is a beat slower off the snap. (I wonder how much of Birk's routine is to ensure that everyone on the line knows when the snap is coming--he seems to dip his head & hike up his butt & then snap the ball on the same count every down. The problem of course is that any defense that's watched the film knows when the snap is coming as well--advantage, D. Maybe they need to put in some silent counts or just some variations to keep the opposing D honest?)

The problem with keeping a TE in to block is that neither of them is very good at it. Maybe they need to go the opposite route & spread the field...but then Joe's gotta find the hot read on a 3-step drop.

Speaking of 3-step drops, I gather that the Texans had a complete read on when he'd be throwing from one, since they seemed to know exactly when to get their hands up.

I myself am more concerned about the D, particularly the line. I was scratching my head as to why it looked pretty good on the first 3 series & then went into the tank, & it occurred to me that it took that long for Houston to test Suggs & then implement contingency plans. IIRC they started by going right at him, & he held up well. Then when that didn't work, they ran plays away from him. Sizzle in his first game back looked (understandably) a step slow in pursuit, particularly when Schaub was rolling away from him, & that set the pass rush back to ground zero. Hindsight being 20-20, maybe they should have played man coverage at that point--couldn't've been much worse, could it?--but with Suggs neutralized that probably looked like a recipe for disaster.

We are starting to understand how important Redding was to last year's defense--& suspect how much the loss of McBean, who was signed to take his place, late in the preseason has hurt.

IMO if Pees has anything up his sleeve (different schemes or personnel groupings) now is the time to put them in in hopes of making it to 7-2 before they get to Pittsburgh; if they don't, the chances of squeezing out a playoff spot go way down--they'll probably have to sweep the Stealers, win once between DC, Denver & the Giants, & it still might come down to Week 17 in Cincy.

[Ravenous1]

That is to me, just being unprepared on the coaching side. They knew what the Texans brought, and they essentially ignored it. And the batted balls...damn, is there anyone that covers the NFL not aware that they do this more than any team? They didn't even try to counter that. No adjustments at all. It's talent, and it is also an excellent example of the coaching staff laying a deuce on the 50 yard line.

We don't have the flexibility to run 2 TEs in patterns against teams that can rush the passer off the edge. We need to run plays that neutralize the rush. Screens, draws, rollouts...and QUICK DEVELOPING PASS PATTERNS. This isn't fucking rocket science. Play to your strengths, not your weaknesses!

Your playing against a team who gets to the QB and have an Oline that is more than willing to cooperate in that venture.

Why the fuck are we running ridiculous slow developing patterns from the 1980's Dan Fouts playbook????? When we see our offense run a slant, a screen or any other quick pattern around here we all jump up and down like an Irishman who just saw his first Leprechaun

[RavensQB]

Your playing against a team who gets to the QB and have an Oline that is more than willing to cooperate in that venture.

Why the fuck are we running ridiculous slow developing patterns from the 1980's Dan Fouts playbook????? When we see our offense run a slant, a screen or any other quick pattern around here we all jump up and down like an Irishman who just saw his first Leprechaun

Hell I saw a pot of GOLD and a Box of Lucky fing CHARMS!!!

[bacchys]

Why the fuck are we running ridiculous slow developing patterns from the 1980's Dan Fouts playbook????? When we see our offense run a slant, a screen or any other quick pattern around here we all jump up and down like an Irishman who just saw his first Leprechaun

That's true. I wonder how much of that is Cameron this year and how much it is Flacco changing the play. Flacco has a lot of confidence in his ability. He wants the ball in his hand, especially at crunch time. He also seems to like slinging it deep. I don't think Cameron's offense has a lot of short, quick routes- the Coryell has never been known for that- but I do wonder how much of the plays we're seeing on the field are on Cameron and how much are on Flacco.

[Ravenous1]

That's true. I wonder how much of that is Cameron this year and how much it is Flacco changing the play. Flacco has a lot of confidence in his ability. He wants the ball in his hand, especially at crunch time. He also seems to like slinging it deep. I don't think Cameron's offense has a lot of short, quick routes- the Coryell has never been known for that- but I do wonder how much of the plays we're seeing on the field are on Cameron and how much are on Flacco.

I tend to think that since we saw very little of that prior to Joe having more control over the offense, its just not a big component of a Cam Cameron offense.

Joe may be calling some of the plays at the line but I think people forget that he is still choosing from a bag of plays that are Cams plays. If those plays are anything like what we have seen Cam run the past 3 yrs, there are very few if any slants, screens or other quick strike type plays. Its not as if Joe is designing his own plays in the huddle lol, he is still running from a selection of Cams plays

[BigPlayReceiver]

I can read that as Belichek saying that having Pees is about the same as having no DC at all.

lol...ok. But I dont see how you land there based upon; NE's (total) defensive ranking from 2006-2009 was 6th, 4th, 10th and 11th.

[Ravenous1]

lol...ok. But I dont see how you land there based upon; NE's (total) defensive ranking from 2006-2009 was 6th, 4th, 10th and 11th.

He also had an offense that was able to control the game and put his D in a position to tee off frequently with big leads. Not something that is happening here. I think Pees has not shown a lot in terms of adjustments etc but that said he has had a bad deck of cards dealt to him. Even Pagano would struggle if you took JJ, Suggs, Lewis, Webb, Redding etc away from him. Not going to be as harsh on Pees as say Cam....

[Firststater]

Speaking of rocket science, that defensive blitz resulting in a safety is one the Ravens, and especially Cam and Flacco, should be intimately familiar with. It is a play directly out of the Steeler's playbook, and one which Reed has runbefore. Polamalu did exactly the same thing to Joe and the Ravens resulting in a huge loss when no one picked him up and/or Joe failed to see him and did not audible out of the original play. Cam says they will work on correcting that miscue. But damn, when will they ever learn? When will Flacco learn to read defenses and to audible accordingly?

[steelerhater]

Harbaughs a good head coach. The others need to go - beginning with Cam. Cam is an albatross hanging around the neck of the offense.

This team will not make the playoffs - in which case Cam will be gone - just like he should have last January. If you remember the news reports he expressed some surprised at not being replaced. When you think that about yourself you can only conclude that the people who think you're wrong about yourself are in fact delusional - and maybe don't really know as much as they would have you believe.

Is he? He doesn't hold his coordinators responsible for anything. He doesn't even know what's going on in their meetings. If i were the head coach, and something was going horribly wrong, I'd get involved before the ship sank.

[wickedsolo]

Harbs needs to grow a set, and get in his coaches faces when they are calling a bad game.

Just curious, but how can you even claim to know what goes on behind closed doors?

We all know the Ravens organization from top to bottom is one of the most tight lipped orgs that exist in pro sports...why would Harbs ever get in Cam's face or Dean's face on the sidelines, berate them publicly, and expect to still have a job?

Everyone can rant and rave all they want about how poor Harbs is at handling his coordinators, but not one single person on this forum knows what goes on in the locker room, in the meeting room, and in their offices.

Harbs knows what the problems are. A lot of these issues can't be fixed over night and some of them can't and won't be fixed/addressed until next off-season.