Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

**Ravenous1** · 10-22-2012, 01:48 PM

John is a stand by your coaches kinda guy. Cam, Dean Pees, Moeller, and Rosburg, have all been in the firing line of fan frustration and yet remain as coaches on this team. When the talent level was at its all time high, I think you could get away with some questionable coaching performances. The talent was such that results were gotten,those results never lived up to the talent but they were enough to help guys skate by. Now when there is a dropoff in talent, we are seeing the warts of these coaches up close and personnel. I think come the end of the year there should be significant changes on the coaching staff.

Jerry Rosburg finally has a special teams unit that seems solid to this point. That said how many guys did the team have to carry as "special team" specialists to make that happen. Graham, Ayandebejo, Ihedigbo etc....any team that ties up the number of spots on guys who specialty is special teams should be that good. What impact does this have on our depth on D?

Gary Moeller has been at best mediocre as the Oline coach. I see little adjusting on the Oline to opponents defensive fronts and the development of talent has been spotty at best. Not to mention a couple of DWI's. I gotta wonder if another coach could get more out a group of guys who seem to have some talent but consistently show lack of good fundamentals and a propensity to get the same silly penalties

Dean Pee's- Will grant Dean Pees was handed less than others who have stepped into the job but that said its the lack of adjustments in game that really bother me. While I think a lot of if not most of the drop off in performance has to be traced to guys lost either through FA or injury, some of it is scheme and some of it has to do with trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. Mike Nolan was sitting there to be had this off season. I would have much preferred to see him come in. Nolan was a guy who when he took over looked at the personnel he had and rather than trying to replicate what the guy (Lewis) did before him, he changed things to fit the personnel. God I wish we had that now.

Cam Cameron- What more can be said. Year after year we see silly play calls. Even when Joe calls the plays its still from a bag of festering pooh that Cam hands him. Unimaginative when it should be imaginative, overly complicated when it should be simple. No communication between the coordinator and Oline coach or Cam would realize that the patterns he has our WR out there trotting around doing are taking far to long develop (for the 3 year in a row) and are likely to get our QB killed at some point this year if it keeps up. An all pro running back who far to often becomes an after thought in the offensive game plan. Its not just fans, commentators, critics and other ex-coaches have even wondered just what is running through the mind of one Cam Cameron.

**NCRAVEN** · 10-22-2012, 01:57 PM

I've said it before, so of course I agree with this.

I like Harbs as a head coach, but as far as the team he keeps underneath him... not so much.

**Ravenous1** · 10-22-2012, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

I've said it before, so of course I agree with this.

I like Harbs as a head coach, but as far as the team he keeps underneath him... not so much.

I totally agree. I have to wonder when Bischotti or Ozzie just says enough.....
If there were one guy on that list that has some legit excuses its Pees. That said he has done little IMO to adjust

**Kevlar** · 10-22-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenous1

Mike Nolan was sitting there to be had this off season. I would have much preferred to see him come in. Nolan was a guy who when he took over looked at the personnel he had and rather than trying to replicate what the guy (Lewis) did before him, he changed things to fit the personnel. God I wish we had that now.

Only problem with Nolan, he'd probably be itching to get the HC job. I don't think Harbaugh has made enough of a name for himself to feel secure enough to bring in a big name like that. One that could easily supplant him.

**Ravenous1** · 10-22-2012, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Kevlar

Only problem with Nolan, he'd probably be itching to get the HC job. I don't think Harbaugh has made enough of a name for himself to feel secure enough to bring in a big name like that. One that could easily supplant him.

I hear ya but not buying it. Nolan was a guy who was unsuccessful in SF as a head coach and not a guy who IMO just walks into a team that has been to 4 straight playoffs and supplants the head coach. If this is the reason then its worse than I feared. Look Gary Kubiack had the stones to bring in Wade Phillips to be his D coordinator. Phillips is about as popular as one can get in Houston (Texas boy, dad Bum was popular etc..) but it did not stop him from bringing him in.

I just think John felt obligated to move up one of his guys. Pees has coordinator experience and was ok as a coordinator so I guess it makes sense. Just think that Nolan has a better pedigree and a history with the team.

**RavensQB** · 10-22-2012, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenous1

I just think John felt obligated to move up one of his guys

I am feel obligated to jam my foot up someones ASS for the mess that Ravens are becoming.

Like the Guy I refer to in my SIG

**Lime in the Coconut** · 10-22-2012, 02:22 PM

I'm sick of old, groggy, unenthusiastic men running our defense. It just doesn't work. Granted, Johnson and Redding left and Suggs was hurt for a little bit, but we're pretty darn bad. I'm all for Ted Monachino or some young, energetic mind.

As for Cam, whatever.

**Ravenous1** · 10-22-2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Lime in the Coconut

I'm sick of old, groggy, unenthusiastic men running our defense. It just doesn't work. Granted, Johnson and Redding left and Suggs was hurt for a little bit, but we're pretty darn bad. I'm all for Ted Monachino or some young, energetic mind.

As for Cam, whatever.

More than anything I am tired of coordinators who seem to insist on doing things their way week after week after week when the stats, eyetest and more show its not working.

Stop talking about "Mighty Men" and take a good look in the mirror and come up with a "Mighty Plan" that might include say....admitting your doing things incorrectly and fixing it.

**ravens1217** · 10-22-2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenous1

John is a stand by your coaches kinda guy. Cam, Dean Pees, Moeller, and Rosburg, have all been in the firing line of fan frustration and yet remain as coaches on this team. When the talent level was at its all time high, I think you could get away with some questionable coaching performances. The talent was such that results were gotten,those results never lived up to the talent but they were enough to help guys skate by. Now when there is a dropoff in talent, we are seeing the warts of these coaches up close and personnel. I think come the end of the year there should be significant changes on the coaching staff.

Jerry Rosburg finally has a special teams unit that seems solid to this point. That said how many guys did the team have to carry as "special team" specialists to make that happen. Graham, Ayandebejo, Ihedigbo etc....any team that ties up the number of spots on guys who specialty is special teams should be that good. What impact does this have on our depth on D?

Gary Moeller has been at best mediocre as the Oline coach. I see little adjusting on the Oline to opponents defensive fronts and the development of talent has been spotty at best. Not to mention a couple of DWI's. I gotta wonder if another coach could get more out a group of guys who seem to have some talent but consistently show lack of good fundamentals and a propensity to get the same silly penalties

Dean Pee's- Will grant Dean Pees was handed less than others who have stepped into the job but that said its the lack of adjustments in game that really bother me. While I think a lot of if not most of the drop off in performance has to be traced to guys lost either through FA or injury, some of it is scheme and some of it has to do with trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. Mike Nolan was sitting there to be had this off season. I would have much preferred to see him come in. Nolan was a guy who when he took over looked at the personnel he had and rather than trying to replicate what the guy (Lewis) did before him, he changed things to fit the personnel. God I wish we had that now.

Cam Cameron- What more can be said. Year after year we see silly play calls. Even when Joe calls the plays its still from a bag of festering pooh that Cam hands him. Unimaginative when it should be imaginative, overly complicated when it should be simple. No communication between the coordinator and Oline coach or Cam would realize that the patterns he has our WR out there trotting around doing are taking far to long develop (for the 3 year in a row) and are likely to get our QB killed at some point this year if it keeps up. An all pro running back who far to often becomes an after thought in the offensive game plan. Its not just fans, commentators, critics and other ex-coaches have even wondered just what is running through the mind of one Cam Cameron.

If you want every top assistant coach fired after starting 5-2 and in first place by 1.5 games despite multiple key injuries, what would you be saying if the record was opposite (2-5) and they were in dead last place. Or would you have already jumped off the bridge at that point?

**BcRaven** · 10-22-2012, 02:54 PM

Maybe Harbaugh can take a lesson from Billick. Didn't he hire Jim Fassel, one of his best friends at the time, as offensive coordinator (2004?). Then fire him after two unproductive offensive seasons(?) You can be a supportive Head Coach for just so long, then you've got to be realistic about how your team is headed. When your own career may be in jeopardy (not saying Harbs is), then you've got to assess players and coaches under you with a more sensible eye, and not let anything personal get in the way of a prudent decision... Bc

**DrUnk** · 10-22-2012, 02:56 PM

I agree.

**RavensQB** · 10-22-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by ravens1217

If you want every top assistant coach fired after starting 5-2 and in first place by 1.5 games despite multiple key injuries, what would you be saying if the record was opposite (2-5) and they were in dead last place. Or would you have already jumped off the bridge at that point?

**Ravenous1** · 10-22-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by ravens1217

If you want every top assistant coach fired after starting 5-2 and in first place by 1.5 games despite multiple key injuries, what would you be saying if the record was opposite (2-5) and they were in dead last place. Or would you have already jumped off the bridge at that point?

Your entitled to your opinion. Key injuries and losses does apply to the D and I noted that Pees was handed a less than other Ravens coordinators. Of the guys on that list Pees is the one guy who can justifiably stand up and say ...hey look at what i am working with here.

Cam, Moeller have a long a history of underachieving IMO that extends beyond this season. Many teams make moves when they feel like they are not getting most out of their talent. You think the Texans were not happy to have moved on to Wade Phillips? How about the Falcons, think they are not happy they moved on to Mike Nolan? Just cause your a winning team does not mean the men that coach those players should not be held accountable to getting the best performance from the group they are responsible for. Personally I do not think this group hits that mark .

**Corey** · 10-22-2012, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Kevlar

Only problem with Nolan, he'd probably be itching to get the HC job. I don't think Harbaugh has made enough of a name for himself to feel secure enough to bring in a big name like that. One that could easily supplant him.

Don't take this the wrong way but I think your smoking crack. Harbaugh has more than made a name for himself. He doesn't get the media hype because he's not a media hound but if Harbaugh were fired today, he'd have his choice of jobs. He's a guy that consistently produces a winning record year after year. He's made the playoffs and been able to win on the road. The only thing keeping Harbaugh from being a star in the NFL is that elusive Superbowl ring, which if he continues to knock on the door, he will eventually get.

**Ravenous1** · 10-22-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Maybe Harbaugh can take a lesson from Billick. Didn't he hire Jim Fassel, one of his best friends at the time, as offensive coordinator (2004?). Then fire him after two unproductive offensive seasons(?) You can be a supportive Head Coach for just so long, then you've got to be realistic about how your team is headed. When your own career may be in jeopardy (not saying Harbs is), then you've got to assess players and coaches under you with a more sensible eye, and not let anything personal get in the way of a prudent decision... Bc

Well said and completely agree.

**ravens1217** · 10-22-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Maybe Harbaugh can take a lesson from Billick. Didn't he hire Jim Fassel, one of his best friends at the time, as offensive coordinator (2004?). Then fire him after two unproductive offensive seasons(?) You can be a supportive Head Coach for just so long, then you've got to be realistic about how your team is headed. When your own career may be in jeopardy (not saying Harbs is), then you've got to assess players and coaches under you with a more sensible eye, and not let anything personal get in the way of a prudent decision... Bc

That move didn't really work out, did it? We had a very easy schedule down the stretch, the Steelers were awful that season so we coasted to a 13-3 record. But when it mattered most in the playoffs against the Colts and their cover 2, Billick's offense yet again laid an egg. What a shame b/c that defense was a close 2nd to our 2000 team.

**ravens1217** · 10-22-2012, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenous1

Your entitled to your opinion. Key injuries and losses does apply to the D and I noted that Pees was handed a less than other Ravens coordinators. Of the guys on that list Pees is the one guy who can justifiably stand up and say ...hey look at what i am working with here.

Cam, Moeller have a long a history of underachieving IMO that extends beyond this season. Many teams make moves when they feel like they are not getting most out of their talent. You think the Texans were not happy to have moved on to Wade Phillips? How about the Falcons, think they are not happy they moved on to Mike Nolan? Just cause your a winning team does not mean the men that coach those players should not be held accountable to getting the best performance from the group they are responsible for. Personally I do not think this group hits that mark .

Whether you think our assistants are the best in the NFL or not, you can't just fire everybody, it's unrealistic. This collective group, management, players, coaches, etc. have won a playoff game in 4 straight years, which is rarely done in the NFL and something we as fans should be proud of. You praise Wade Phillips, who just last week gave up 6 TD passes to Aaron Rodgers and was absolutely torched. Mike Nolan is now with his 3rd team in 4 years, there's a reason he's finding a new home almost every season.

Everybody from the top on down turned in a dud yesterday, but they're not going to hit the panic button just yet. Bye week came at a great time, and they have 2 weeks to figure it out. It's not just the coaches to blame, the players have to take some responsibility, its not as black and white as people make it out to be. Now if we lose say 4 or 5 in a row, then something major might happen, but I still think they wait until the year is over to make a decision on Cam.

Like I keep saying, win your games at home and find a way to split on the road, and you are guaranteed a first round bye.

**Cj34** · 10-22-2012, 03:27 PM

There is one reason to think this will finally be the last year of Cam - Flacco's contract. It's clear with the turbulance of their relationship that should Joe resign he will not want Cam back here. Then the Ravens will have a choice to make. Flacco may not be an elite QB but when the choice is between him and Cam there is no choice. Lol

**Ravenous1** · 10-22-2012, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by ravens1217

Whether you think our assistants are the best in the NFL or not, you can't just fire everybody, it's unrealistic. This collective group, management, players, coaches, etc. have won a playoff game in 4 straight years, which is rarely done in the NFL and something we as fans should be proud of. You praise Wade Phillips, who just last week gave up 6 TD passes to Aaron Rodgers and was absolutely torched. Mike Nolan is now with his 3rd team in 4 years, there's a reason he's finding a new home almost every season.

Everybody from the top on down turned in a dud yesterday, but they're not going to hit the panic button just yet. Bye week came at a great time, and they have 2 weeks to figure it out. It's not just the coaches to blame, the players have to take some responsibility, its not as black and white as people make it out to be. Now if we lose say 4 or 5 in a row, then something major might happen, but I still think they wait until the year is over to make a decision on Cam.

Like I keep saying, win your games at home and find a way to split on the road, and you are guaranteed a first round bye.

Not suggesting that we fire anyone in season. That said, if the players performance is fair game to be discussed then so is the coaching staff. If you cant see that Wade Philips and Mike Nolan have had positive influences on the teams they are with then your just looking at it with blinders.

Again Pees is the one guy who can make some legit argument that he has been hampered from putting out a good unit by injury and FA losses. Cam...whats his excuse? There is plenty of talent on the Offensive side of the ball. Plenty has been invested there and its not unreasonable to expect a certain level of return on that investment. If you think the uneven offensive play to this point is enough, we just have to agree to disagree

**HKusp** · 10-22-2012, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cj34

There is one reason to think this will finally be the last year of Cam - Flacco's contract. It's clear with the turbulance of their relationship that should Joe resign he will not want Cam back here. Then the Ravens will have a choice to make. Flacco may not be an elite QB but when the choice is between him and Cam there is no choice. Lol

That is a very good point. If they are going to sign him to a contract that pays him over 50 million guaranteed, he is going to have some say in the matter of who is calling the offense.