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  1. #13
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    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year



    We are Road Kill!! It's bad on the road. Just down right Ugly. I believe we have the talent and players to do way better on the road. Shoot we are dangerous at home. Are we trying to be to cute on the road, Making adjustments is needed, every game. Yes Rice should get ball, in passing game. We do need to adjust the passing O. Better routes, no MORE routes is needed. Move Flacco, he money when rolling out.

    As for the D, we need swagger back, that's for sure. The d line is hurting. IMO i would like #50 starting and kruger passing down only.

    We will right this ship, But two weeks to look in mirror, and get the O performing on the road is a key. fix the gap control on D, and New Orleans here we come!!




  2. #14

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    While I pretty much agree with everything the OP said, I also think the passing game, on the road especially, appears not to have what it takes to score consistently. And worse, it sometimes can't get even a few first downs, which puts our defense back on the field before they can get a drink.

    What Barwin said is exactly what I have been saying for a while, including about last year's AFCCG where we passed the ball pretty well. People when looking at that game kept saying things like Rice isn't worth X money, did you see him disappear in the AFCCG, etc, etc. But people constantly ignore the fact that any well-coached and remotely-competent team defense can make a RB "disappear" IF they are willing to sell out massively to stop the RB. But when they do this, it means the passing game should have it as easy as it ever will (against that team). So, to summarize, if Rice finishes the game with pedestrian stats but forced the other team to play 8 and 9 in and around the box all night and gave our receivers single coverage most of the time, then he did contribute mightily to our effort. That the passing game cannot carry the vast majority of the load, facing the easiest situation they will ever face, is a problem with our passing game (Cam more than anyone, imo, but I understand a lot of people disagree).

    Of course, Barwin and Houston and even New England would have been forced to change their scheme (away from one that spends so much effort stopping Rice) if our passing game was able to consistently take advantage of run-defenses (on 1st and 2nd down especially).

    In terms of the Houston game though, I also agree with the OP that we didn't use Rice enough, even stipulating that he likely was the focus of the defense's attention. We basically were still doing well enough with early runs to keep at it until the results got a lot worse than they did before shifting to almost entirely passes.
    According to my eye test the recipe for exposing the ravens pass offense is to spy Ray Rice and play double man zone coverage and make Flacco throw the ball to the middle of the field, something he doesn't do consistently, either because he can't or the playcalling doesn't call for it enough. Furthermore It just seems that a lot of his throws are designed to go the right side of the field via a comeback route or occassional slant. Frustrate them on two or 3 consecutive drives and they go into a shell. SMH




  3. #15

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    Interesting topic... but frankly, run first/pass first or run more often than pass and vice versa are opponent and game time decisions.

    Not that our OC plans or adjusts in this manner,

    When he does rush, he quickly switches to pass - almost as if he were dyslexic, inverting the number of rushing yards gained.
    When he passes, he seems to think Flacco is going to have 3-4 seconds of protection.

    It feels like Cameron is a gambler playing a slot machine instead of playing black jack. Counting cards helps.




  4. #16
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    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    They have to get the ball to Rice. Hand it to him, pitch it to him, dump it off, hit him on a route, etc. He gets yardage and it starts with him IMO
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  5. #17

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    If I can remember correctly, there once was a time where Joe Flacco was criticized for being to quick to dump off passes to Ray Rice, instead of properly going through his progressions.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  6. #18

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    They have to get the ball to Rice. Hand it to him, pitch it to him, dump it off, hit him on a route, etc. He gets yardage and it starts with him IMO
    When you think about it, by and large this team does nothing but hand the ball to Rice up the middle or throw to him on a dump-off. Yes, they get a little creative now and again, but it's literally two or three times A SEASON.

    They need to pitch it to Rice, line him up at WR and have him run a route, or otherwise get him in space MUCH more often. I don't think the Ravens can be a run-first team but they CAN and SHOULD be a Ray Rice first team. They need to use him exactly like the Warner Rams used Marshall Faulk IMO.




  7. #19
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    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    When you think about it, by and large this team does nothing but hand the ball to Rice up the middle or throw to him on a dump-off. Yes, they get a little creative now and again, but it's literally two or three times A SEASON.

    They need to pitch it to Rice, line him up at WR and have him run a route, or otherwise get him in space MUCH more often. I don't think the Ravens can be a run-first team but they CAN and SHOULD be a Ray Rice first team. They need to use him exactly like the Warner Rams used Marshall Faulk IMO.
    We can't pass the ball on the road though, what can we do? Like you said, if our defense is leaking 30 points a game, we obviously wont be able to run the ball, so if our passing offense is that bad on the road every week, we have no chance.




  8. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    To say that they can't pass the ball on the road is a bit dramatic, IMO. Against the Eagles (prior to getting hurt) Flacco was throwing the ball well and even after he got hurt in the 3rd quarter he was still throwing a decent ball.

    KC's defense is no slouch and Houston has arguable the best defense in the league, so playing against those teams was going to be tough regardless. That said, the biggest reason why the passing offense has looked so inept is because the OL is inconsistent and Cam's version of the Coryell offense doesn't jive with man coverage. When was the last time a Ravens receiver or TE was WIDE open like Owen Daniels or Andre Johnson were last week? Or Brent Celek in week 2? The windows that Flacco has to throw into are insane and would make practically any other QB look like a hot steaming pile'o'shit too.

    I do agree with bmorecareful though on a lot of things regarding this topic. They need to do a better job of getting Rice the ball in space as much as possible. Whether it is by running the ball or passing the ball, it shouldn't matter. Rice should be the main focal point of the offense and the last couple of weeks he's really been an afterthought.
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  9. #21

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    The only problem I have is that we seem to alienate two of our best players when we go on the road.
    If we didn't resign Rice and we didn't make Leach the highest paid FB then I would have no problem with passing so much. If we put the money into the o-line and WRs then we would be playing to our strength by passing more.
    Instead we seem perfectly content with leaving some of our best players out of the gameplan. It's hard enough to win in the damn league and yet we seem to try to do it without our best players.
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  10. #22

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    If I can remember correctly, there once was a time where Joe Flacco was criticized for being to quick to dump off passes to Ray Rice, instead of properly going through his progressions.
    I don't think its as much of a criticism as it is an observation. If you try to run 70 percent of your offensive plays through one guy, teams are going to key on that one guy. Like Houston did. Take that one guy away with an adequete athletic defender, and what can you do? Joe didn't have his saftey valve, Rice was blanketed. It was tough for them to make anything else happen.




  11. #23

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    I don't think its as much of a criticism as it is an observation. If you try to run 70 percent of your offensive plays through one guy, teams are going to key on that one guy. Like Houston did. Take that one guy away with an adequete athletic defender, and what can you do? Joe didn't have his saftey valve, Rice was blanketed. It was tough for them to make anything else happen.
    Right, but if you pull a safety or LB out of the box to spy Rice that should leave one less defender in the middle of the field. The offense should adapt to that scenario and get guys moving across the middle--drag, hook, and in routes, etc. Get the ball out quickly over the middle, and if they try to swat the ball down get the OL putting helmets into groins and roll Flacco outside the pocket.

    It's so easy to say, that you wonder why in the world are they not doing these things? It's just bizarre. They either can't or won't adjust the offense on the fly when playing on the road. I wish we knew definitively which one it was.

    This is all the more reason to not give up on the no-huddle offense, even on the road. The no-huddle has its warts including time of possession problems, but this team just won't ever win it all with Cam calling the plays. The less play-calling Cam does, and the more Joe does, the better this team will be if nothing else but it appears to me that Joe is willing/able to adapt.




  12. #24

    Re: We need to let go of the notion that the Ravens can be a run-first team; not this year

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Right, but if you pull a safety or LB out of the box to spy Rice that should leave one less defender in the middle of the field. The offense should adapt to that scenario and get guys moving across the middle--drag, hook, and in routes, etc. Get the ball out quickly over the middle, and if they try to swat the ball down get the OL putting helmets into groins and roll Flacco outside the pocket.

    It's so easy to say, that you wonder why in the world are they not doing these things? It's just bizarre. They either can't or won't adjust the offense on the fly when playing on the road. I wish we knew definitively which one it was.

    This is all the more reason to not give up on the no-huddle offense, even on the road. The no-huddle has its warts including time of possession problems, but this team just won't ever win it all with Cam calling the plays. The less play-calling Cam does, and the more Joe does, the better this team will be if nothing else but it appears to me that Joe is willing/able to adapt.
    I have no clue. Maybe Joe doesn't see the field that well and can't find the open guy? Maybe Cameron wasn't calling all those designed dump offs and Joe was just immediately checking down if his primary read wasn't open? No way for us to know unless you have a good scanner or know someone on the team.




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