Kindle experiment is not over...

[Captain Silver]

Exposed as what? What exactly do you think is being hidden behind that facade?

I don't like the 'corporate' approach to football. Hokey speeches and a mindset there is only ONE way to do something. It appears on game days, game management, and the expectation that we should win staying EXACTLY as we were year to year. That making the playoffs IS success. Winning a Super Bowl is success. I would trade 4 years of 8-8 records for 1 Super Bowl. The Giants have had crappy seasonal records and still have 2 Super Bowls over the past 10 years.

I personally think people calling for Harbaughs head because of one game is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.

There are no conspiracys going on behind the scenes people, move along now.

I am not calling for Harbaugh's head so don't put words into my mouth thank you very much.

I do NOT like him as a head coach, I have never liked him in any capacity and don't see him raising the team to level of champion. I need look no further than his approval of our offensive coordinator and his lack of in game adjustments.

That being said, we are stuck with him. I have NO choice but to get behind him and hope he does the right thing and fires this offensive coordinator and takes command of his assistants like he takes command of his players.

[Dirt1]

I am a little confused as to why Kindle hasn't been able to make it back to at least a decent level. Bones heal, even the skull. He lost hearing in one ear, but has had two years to adjust to that. I would have thought that he could at least have been a decent situational pass rusher.

[HoustonRaven]

I am a little confused as to why Kindle hasn't been able to make it back to at least a decent level. Bones heal, even the skull. He lost hearing in one ear, but has had two years to adjust to that. I would have thought that he could at least have been a decent situational pass rusher.

Kindle's issue is Kindle.

He's not very motivated and now add on his other issues and it's easy for this Longhorn fan to see the same things I've been seeing since his Austin days.

He simply aint that good anymore.

[Captain Silver]

Sometimes it just isn't in the cards. Shame we wasted so much time and $$$ on him. I am sure there were 2 or 3 special teams players Harbaugh would have loved to have had over him.

[Tucker: M&T Sec 527]

Sergio Kindle was never even an experiment. Hes never been given a chance to start and that seems to be the norm with this coaching staff. They do not give young players the ability to start.

They think that bad practice player translates to them being bad on the field.

I cannot understand why Kindle hasnt been given a chance yet. By all accounts, he was a beast coming out of college. Sure, he lost some of his hearing, but that shit is not going to mess up his play.

I know you don't want to hear it, but I always enjoy listening to me go on and on. Kindle's "story" includes significant "off the field" chapters. DUIs ( w/ and w/o brick walls driven through), fall down go boom @ parties, etc. etc. I'm willing to eschew the label "character risk," but the hearing problems and ongoing narcolepsey condition are together the psychophysiological equal of at least an ACL tear (and neither condition can be fixed). I wonder if this guy has been judged a danger to himself and others on a regular-season NFL field of play.

This whole situation just sums up our coaching staff - the inability to develop players.

Joe Flacco, he has started here every game since 2008, but why? Because of injury and illness. He came into 2008 as 3rd on the depth chart AFTER BEING A 1st ROUND DRAFT PICK. Seriously? You pick a QB in the first round and you throw him at the back of the bus when you have Kyle Boller and Troy Smith in front? What a seriously bad judge of talent.

I know you guys dont want to hear it, but Jared Gaithers injury appeared just after John Harbaugh moved him from LT to RT... after having an All Pro year at LT. Why? Because Michael Oher was a movie star and 1st round pick.

Im sorry, but I have a serious issue with this coaching staffs judge of talent and ability to put players in their best position to succeed.

Things broke Flacco's way in preseason 2007 and did so quickly and in a way that left no alternative but Joe. I'm not sure how that proves that he was going to be 3rd string that year. And, yes, Oher was a pop star, but also a guy who did what his coaches asked of him and was/is willing to compete for a job. Gaither was/is a DICK, and apparently viewed himself untouchable and above having to defend/win back his LT position (and $). The Ravens made another character call in this case, and they were correct: Oher remains a cooperative and engaged employee, if at times underwhelming as an OT; and Gaither remains (2 stops later) an NFL roster cancer.

[GOTA]

I don't like the 'corporate' approach to football. Hokey speeches and a mindset there is only ONE way to do something. It appears on game days, game management, and the expectation that we should win staying EXACTLY as we were year to year. That making the playoffs IS success. Winning a Super Bowl is success. I would trade 4 years of 8-8 records for 1 Super Bowl. The Giants have had crappy seasonal records and still have 2 Super Bowls over the past 10 years.



I am not calling for Harbaugh's head so don't put words into my mouth thank you very much.

I do NOT like him as a head coach, I have never liked him in any capacity and don't see him raising the team to level of champion. I need look no further than his approval of our offensive coordinator and his lack of in game adjustments.

That being said, we are stuck with him. I have NO choice but to get behind him and hope he does the right thing and fires this offensive coordinator and takes command of his assistants like he takes command of his players.

I don't see it as a corporate approach. I see it more as the Andy Reid model. Reid was so loyal to one of his guys that he made him DC despite all his coaching experience coming from the offensive side of the ball. He put personal friendship over doing what is right for his team.

I grew up a huge Parcells fan. Bill would always bring in his guys but he was quick to get rid of them when it didn't work out. That's what I wish Harbaugh would do. Bill would never go down with his ship like Reid is. Bill would have built up a new ship and jumped to it.

I don't see Bisciotti really interfering in any of this. I don't see a corporate approach that he's pushed. We've all heard the stories of how close he is with Bart Scott. He didn't force Ozzie to make sure Bart Scott stayed a Raven and he could have if he wanted to. Bisciotti leaves the football decisions to the football people for the most part. I see this as Harbaugh running things the way he wants and not some agenda from above.

[Captain Silver]

I don't see it as a corporate approach. I see it more as the Andy Reid model. Reid was so loyal to one of his guys that he made him DC despite all his coaching experience coming from the offensive side of the ball. He put personal friendship over doing what is right for his team.

I grew up a huge Parcells fan. Bill would always bring in his guys but he was quick to get rid of them when it didn't work out. That's what I wish Harbaugh would do. Bill would never go down with his ship like Reid is. Bill would have built up a new ship and jumped to it.

I don't see Bisciotti really interfering in any of this. I don't see a corporate approach that he's pushed. We've all heard the stories of how close he is with Bart Scott. He didn't force Ozzie to make sure Bart Scott stayed a Raven and he could have if he wanted to. Bisciotti leaves the football decisions to the football people for the most part. I see this as Harbaugh running things the way he wants and not some agenda from above.

Fine, call it the "Andy Reid almost is good enough" model. And friendship get's in Harbaugh's way when it suits him.

I go with the corporate way is because Biscuit is not a hands off owner. He made a Billion doing it his way and part of that was polling people on Billick. Then, he has a gut feeling and fires him with a 5-11 injury marred squad a year removed from a 13-3 season? Hell, if the Giant's did the same with Coughlin they'd have never won shit. Just because Biscuit is hands off most of the time doesn't mean he hasn't or doesn't meddle when it suits him.

I'm a huge Parcells fan and I wish we had that kind of coach. Meaning like Belicheck or Coughlin, their show or no show at all. Oh wait, we did...

[HoustonRaven]

I go with the corporate way is because Biscuit is not a hands off owner. He made a Billion doing it his way and part of that was polling people on Billick. Then, he has a gut feeling and fires him with a 5-11 injury marred squad a year removed from a 13-3 season? Hell, if the Giant's did the same with Coughlin they'd have never won shit. Just because Biscuit is hands off most of the time doesn't mean he hasn't or doesn't meddle when it suits him.

Bollocks. He polled people on Billick? Who? Please provide something to back that up.

Everyone owner is hands on when it comes to the hiring of their new head coach. That's nothing new in the league and certainly not a knock on any owner, Bisciotti included.

Edit: Ok, found a few stories on my own, nothing concrete, about the polling. In any event and if true, what's the problem? The larger issue at the time was that Billick lost the locker room, not the losing record. Leaders only have about 5-8 years before their message becomes stale. It was imply BB's time and I am a HUGE BB supporter.

[landspeed]

I think he means the offense, not to single out Joe.

correct

[Captain Silver]

http://wnst.net/baltimore-sports/bis...ibility-sinks/

It is written that Dick Cass did the inquiring, but who does he get his marching orders from?

And Houston, I am not saying Steve can't do what he wants, he's the billionaire, I just never agreed with canning Billick. That 2000 Superbowl is looking much farther away then it ever did with Billick. We had arguable the best team over the last few years and shit to show for it in the trophy case.

But by all means, stick to the same thing...

[HoustonRaven]

http://wnst.net/baltimore-sports/bis...ibility-sinks/

It is written that Dick Cass did the inquiring, but who does he get his marching orders from?

And Houston, I am not saying Steve can't do what he wants, he's the billionaire, I just never agreed with canning Billick. That 2000 Superbowl is looking much farther away then it ever did with Billick. We had arguable the best team over the last few years and shit to show for it in the trophy case.

But by all means, stick to the same thing...

See my edit ...

[Captain Silver]

Edit: Ok, found a few stories on my own, nothing concrete, about the polling. In any event and if true, what's the problem? The larger issue at the time was that Billick lost the locker room, not the losing record. Leaders only have about 5-8 years before their message becomes stale. It was imply BB's time and I am a HUGE BB supporter.

My problem is the owner yuking it up with players like Bart and Ray, then asking people what they think of the head coach. It undermines his authority. Billick needed a QB, Ozzie never got him one, end of story end of career.

I never buy the stale story, didn't get stale for the Steelers? They are on what, their 3rd coach and have 7 Super Bowls???

Matter of fact, this is only going to get worse. Steve is committed to the Ravens and lets his partner run his real company so he can focus on the NFL.

[HoustonRaven]

My problem is the owner yuking it up with players like Bart and Ray, then asking people what they think of the head coach. It undermines his authority. Billick needed a QB, Ozzie never got him one, end of story end of career.

The rumor you're saying happened stated that Bisciotti went to staff, not players.

I never buy the stale story, didn't get stale for the Steelers? They are on what, their 3rd coach and have 7 Super Bowls???

As a matter of fact, it did. They moved on from Noll for precisely the same reason. Noll got did precisely dick from 1979 to 1991.
Cowher quit at the height of his success so you can't say either way it was a lost message.

Matter of fact, this is only going to get worse. Steve is committed to the Ravens and lets his partner run his real company so he can focus on the NFL.

If true, he has one of the best teams in the league in terms of winning percentage and is widely regarded as one of the best franchises in the league. I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with your paranoia.

[Captain Silver]

Case in point, we are going to overspend on a legendary linebacker next year who has been passed by the play of younger players. Ray should be done, if Parcells ran this team or Belicheck, he'd be done. But Steve and Ray are boys and he will get a pass and come back for a ridiculous 18th year.

Symantics,

Knoll got 11 years to fix it... that is quite a leash.

As for players, I don't have a link but you hear crap on the radio that said the players were involved too, but you can dismiss that as well.

Andy Reid has one of the best percentages too... how many trophies?

[saintmatthew]

I would trade 4 years of 8-8 records for 1 Super Bowl. The Giants have had crappy seasonal records and still have 2 Super Bowls over the past 10 years.

Really? Thankfully you don't run the Ravens.

[wickedsolo]

Case in point, we are going to overspend on a legendary linebacker next year who has been passed by the play of younger players. Ray should be done, if Parcells ran this team or Belicheck, he'd be done. But Steve and Ray are boys and he will get a pass and come back for a ridiculous 18th year.

While I don't disagree with you that someone should tell Ray that it's time to hang'em up...

Belichick is notorious for signing older vets who are considered washed up by many other teams. Junior Seau comes to mind. Shaun Ellis is another.

[HoustonRaven]

Case in point, we are going to overspend on a legendary linebacker next year who has been passed by the play of younger players. Ray should be done, if Parcells ran this team or Belicheck, he'd be done. But Steve and Ray are boys and he will get a pass and come back for a ridiculous 18th year.

.... leading the team in tackles and was 5th in the entire NFL in tackles prior to his injury.

And I doubt seriously Belichick will cast off Brady. Ever.

[Captain Silver]

Really? Thankfully you don't run the Ravens.

Because winning seasons and losing in the playoffs is better than a Super Bowl???

While I don't disagree with you that someone should tell Ray that it's time to hang'em up...

Belichick is notorious for signing older vets who are considered washed up by many other teams. Junior Seau comes to mind. Shaun Ellis is another.

Could not agree more! But Belicheck isn't going to be paying Ray anymore than the vet minimum! And he is going to bring him off the field on passing downs, which should have been done here.

.... leading the team in tackles and was 5th in the entire NFL in tackles prior to his injury.

And I doubt seriously Belichick will cast off Brady. Ever.

I didn't say Ray had no game left, but tackling someone after a 5 yard gain really isn't what Ray was about. It pained me to watch him get rolled over this year.

And no, you are definitely right about Brady and Bill.

[GOTA]

While I don't disagree with you that someone should tell Ray that it's time to hang'em up...

Belichick is notorious for signing older vets who are considered washed up by many other teams. Junior Seau comes to mind. Shaun Ellis is another.

He'll sign them for the minimum. He certainly won't pay them anything close to what they used to get. The Ravens wouldn't do that to Ray.

[HoustonRaven]

I didn't say Ray had no game left, but tackling someone after a 5 yard gain really isn't what Ray was about. It pained me to watch him get rolled over this year.

That's the job of an MLB. The line is supposed to be stopping the run at the line. If that fails, the linebacker backs them up the line, hence the name. And I've seen plenty of runs this season where Ray did indeed stuff the run at the line.

His issues are in coverage, not his run stopping abilities.