Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

**wickedsolo** · 11-12-2012, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

You are absolutely not biased. I am 100% confident both Luke Joeckel AND Jake Matthews will be starting LTs in the NFL one day. I would jump for joy if the Ravens drafted either of those guys.

Tyron Smith played RT his entire career at USC, he's starting for the Cowboys at LT today (albeit having a bit of a down year from what I hear.) Just because you play RT in college doesn't mean you can't play LT... and vice versa... just depends on the skill set.

I don't know that OT is DEFINITELY this team's biggest need. Michael Oher has been serviceable and could possibly get better if he had a better OL coach. KO could possibly play LT as well, and Jah Reid has been promising as a LG or RT, which provides good depth.

I'm much more inclined to look at some of the many outstanding defensive players in this year's first few rounds. Our biggest offensive need remains in coaching, not personnel.

I know pass rusher is kind of up in the air as to whether or not that would be a position of need or not, but man...Damontre Moore (Texas A&M DE) is sick. He's that speed rusher the Ravens don't have that would compliment Suggs big time. I think Moore is going to slowly rise up the draft boards though. This is shaping up to be a really nice draft for DE's/rush OLB's.

Right now the following are 1st rounders/borderline 1st rounders:
Barkevious Mingo
Sam Montgomery
Damontre Moore
Bjoern Werner
Alex Okafor
Jackson Jeffcoat
Dion Jordan
Jarvis Jones
Chase Thomas

**wickedsolo** · 11-13-2012, 06:21 AM

If the Eagles cut Asomugha this off-season and Ed Reed retires...how would you guys feel about him coming here as a FS? He has indicated in the past that he would like to make the swap to FS and his market is going to be nowhere near what it was when he signed with the Eagles.

**Ravenalytics** · 11-13-2012, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

If the Eagles cut Asomugha this off-season and Ed Reed retires...how would you guys feel about him coming here as a FS? He has indicated in the past that he would like to make the swap to FS and his market is going to be nowhere near what it was when he signed with the Eagles.

Doubt Reed retires (although a SB win could change things), but it may be possible that he'd leave in FA.

From what I've seen of Asomugha, he makes a lot of mental errors in coverage. That doesn't give me a lot of faith.

I was never one for moving Webb to the safety spot, but if he's coming off an ACL tear that might be a one year stop gap while he gets up to his old speed.

What round's Tyrann Mathieu projected to go?

**Lee Van Cleef** · 11-13-2012, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

What round's Tyrann Mathieu projected to go?

At this point I would imagine late rounds at the best. Guy can't seem to get out of his own way.

There has been a buzz about Moore for a while now and some pundits were already putting him in the top half of the first round of their mocks... I don't think the Ravens have a shout at him if he comes out. There was something on rotoworld about him planning on staying in school though: http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/c...-headlines?r=1

**Ravenalytics** · 11-13-2012, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef

At this point I would imagine late rounds at the best. Guy can't seem to get out of his own way.

There has been a buzz about Moore for a while now and some pundits were already putting him in the top half of the first round of their mocks... I don't think the Ravens have a shout at him if he comes out. There was something on rotoworld about him planning on staying in school though: http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/c...-headlines?r=1

Wow, just read up on his arrest history... he'll probably end up on the Bengals or Lions.

**Ravenalytics** · 11-13-2012, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef

At this point I would imagine late rounds at the best. Guy can't seem to get out of his own way.

There has been a buzz about Moore for a while now and some pundits were already putting him in the top half of the first round of their mocks... I don't think the Ravens have a shout at him if he comes out. There was something on rotoworld about him planning on staying in school though: http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/c...-headlines?r=1

Wow, just read up on his arrest history... he'll probably end up on the Bengals or Lions.

**wickedsolo** · 11-13-2012, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

Doubt Reed retires (although a SB win could change things), but it may be possible that he'd leave in FA.

From what I've seen of Asomugha, he makes a lot of mental errors in coverage. That doesn't give me a lot of faith.

I was never one for moving Webb to the safety spot, but if he's coming off an ACL tear that might be a one year stop gap while he gets up to his old speed.

What round's Tyrann Mathieu projected to go?

Regarding Asomugha - His bread and butter has always been as a press-coverage man. The Eagles have been using him as a soft-zone cover-2 cornerback and that isn't his game at all. Still, he's a good tackler, he has good ball skills, and he has the speed and range to cover deep. I don't see it happening, but I wouldn't be surprised to see teams possibly looking at Asomugha as a FS at this point in his career.

If Tyrann Mathieu gets drafted at all, I'd be surprised.

That said, I'm not interested in him in the least. He's a good player...in college. I don't know how he'd fare in the NFL though. He's small (5'9" 170lbs). Webb was 5'10" 175lbs when he came into the league, but he's put on about 10lbs of muscle. Still though, that extra inch can make a difference. If Mathieu catches on with a team it will likely be as a return specialist and a depth corner.

I think our corner depth is pretty solid right now though.

We'll get Webb back and we have Jimmy, Asa, Chykie, and Graham.

**wickedsolo** · 11-13-2012, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef

At this point I would imagine late rounds at the best. Guy can't seem to get out of his own way.

There has been a buzz about Moore for a while now and some pundits were already putting him in the top half of the first round of their mocks... I don't think the Ravens have a shout at him if he comes out. There was something on rotoworld about him planning on staying in school though: http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/c...-headlines?r=1

I would love Damontre Moore, but if it is between Moore and someone like CJ Mosley or Jake Matthews...I'd go with one of the other guys because they are arguably just as good at their respective positions. Still though, having a pure pass rusher like Aldon Smith across from Suggs would be REALLY nice.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 11-13-2012, 10:10 AM

I'm still a big fan of Mathieu. I know people are concerned about his pure speed and size, but some guys are just football players. I think his instincts, his willingness to get physical and his ball skills make up for the size stuff...and I still think he winds up at safety. Just MHO though.

Also, I have been VERY impressed with Ellerbe over the past 4-5 weeks...so much so that I think while we still really need an ILB, it's not the absolute crap that it would have been without him really stepping up. We still need someone though because of course, Ellerbe is a UFA, and Ray is not only another year older, but you can just see the erosion of skills.

**leachisabeast** · 11-13-2012, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I'm still a big fan of Mathieu. I know people are concerned about his pure speed and size, but some guys are just football players. I think his instincts, his willingness to get physical and his ball skills make up for the size stuff...and I still think he winds up at safety. Just MHO though.

Also, I have been VERY impressed with Ellerbe over the past 4-5 weeks...so much so that I think while we still really need an ILB, it's not the absolute crap that it would have been without him really stepping up. We still need someone though because of course, Ellerbe is a UFA, and Ray is not only another year older, but you can just see the erosion of skills.

I doubt Mathieu declares, he will try and get back into LSU for his senior year, or he'll try and transfer to a smaller school to get his draft stock back up.

**GOTA** · 11-13-2012, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I doubt Mathieu declares, he will try and get back into LSU for his senior year, or he'll try and transfer to a smaller school to get his draft stock back up.

He's never going to be allowed back at LSU.

**GOTA** · 11-13-2012, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

If the Eagles cut Asomugha this off-season and Ed Reed retires...how would you guys feel about him coming here as a FS? He has indicated in the past that he would like to make the swap to FS and his market is going to be nowhere near what it was when he signed with the Eagles.

I love that idea. Shades of Rod Woodson

**wickedsolo** · 11-13-2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I'm still a big fan of Mathieu. I know people are concerned about his pure speed and size, but some guys are just football players. I think his instincts, his willingness to get physical and his ball skills make up for the size stuff...and I still think he winds up at safety. Just MHO though.

Also, I have been VERY impressed with Ellerbe over the past 4-5 weeks...so much so that I think while we still really need an ILB, it's not the absolute crap that it would have been without him really stepping up. We still need someone though because of course, Ellerbe is a UFA, and Ray is not only another year older, but you can just see the erosion of skills.

I agree about Ellerbe. He definitely makes the ILB position a lot more workable next year. Hopefully he realizes the opportunity Baltimore has given him and won't ask for the moon. I guess now we can kind of understand why they put a 2nd round tender on the kid.

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I doubt Mathieu declares, he will try and get back into LSU for his senior year, or he'll try and transfer to a smaller school to get his draft stock back up.

It is HIGHLY unlikely that LSU will take him back. Especially after his most recent incident.

What he should do - and should have done IMO - was immediately transfer to a DII school like Alabama A&M or something like that. At least that way he would have had more opportunity to keep his ass out of trouble while he worked on kicking his addictions.

**wickedsolo** · 11-13-2012, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I love that idea. Shades of Rod Woodson

I agree.

I think he could make the transition to FS fairly easily. It would also extend his career a bit (IIRC he is 31 or 32 years old right now) and at this point you have to think that the guy really just wants to play for a winner. He signed with Philly thinking he'd be playing in a SB and still hasn't even played a game in the post-season. He's made a lot of money, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him sign with a team that has legitimate playoff probability.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 11-13-2012, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I doubt Mathieu declares, he will try and get back into LSU for his senior year, or he'll try and transfer to a smaller school to get his draft stock back up.

It remains to be seen what happens with him after this season but like others have said...LSU is almost 100% out of the question.

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I agree about Ellerbe. He definitely makes the ILB position a lot more workable next year. Hopefully he realizes the opportunity Baltimore has given him and won't ask for the moon. I guess now we can kind of understand why they put a 2nd round tender on the kid.

What the team probably should do is cut McClain and try to give some of that money to Ellerbe.

McClain looks completely over his head when he doesn't have a DL dominating in front of him and Ray beside him.

**arnie_uk** · 11-13-2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I would love Damontre Moore, but if it is between Moore and someone like CJ Mosley or Jake Matthews...I'd go with one of the other guys because they are arguably just as good at their respective positions. Still though, having a pure pass rusher like Aldon Smith across from Suggs would be REALLY nice.

for what it's worth waltzer football has moore going 5th overall.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 11-13-2012, 02:34 PM

Through nine games, we have the #2 and #3 3-4 OLBs vs. the run (Upshaw and McClellan).

Versus the pass, McClellan is middle of the pack, while Upshaw is 3rd from the bottom.

Kruger is middle of the pack vs. the run, and has just broken up from rock bottom into the middle of the pack vs. the pass.

PFF.com is not God, and the Ravens have there own scoring system anyway, but based upon the only objective, numerical data I know and can see, Kruger is still odd man out.

FWIW - Kruger's KC performance was considerably better than his OAK performance. About 80-85% better.

**wickedsolo** · 11-13-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

for what it's worth waltzer football has moore going 5th overall.

Yea, I'm not surprised by his stock vault. He has killed OT's this year and not just crappy OT's from TCU and UTEP. He's been going up against SEC tackles and has been very successful. He was also successful last year when A&M was running a 3-4.

**Bhcforlife** · 11-13-2012, 04:47 PM

I've not been following this thread closely but this talk of Mathieu, I have to say I think CB is as much a position of need at this point as any. Look at it:

Webb is going to be coming off a second ACL injury and will likely not be at full strength until midway through next year at the earliest.

Williams is almost certainly gone.

Smith has been constantly injured and quite honestly hasn't played all that well when he's gotten the opportunity.

Graham, Brown, Jackson, these are reserve depth guys. I do like them all, but I don't know that you want any of them starting for long stretches and with Webb's ACL/Smith's injury issues that is what you are probably looking at.

Am I crazy? I know they just drafted Smith but the Ravens have, in the past, drafted CBs early close together (Starks and McAlister). Also note that I am not advocating the drafting of Mathieu.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 11-13-2012, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Through nine games, we have the #2 and #3 3-4 OLBs vs. the run (Upshaw and McClellan).

Versus the pass, McClellan is middle of the pack, while Upshaw is 3rd from the bottom.

Kruger is middle of the pack vs. the run, and has just broken up from rock bottom into the middle of the pack vs. the pass.

PFF.com is not God, and the Ravens have there own scoring system anyway, but based upon the only objective, numerical data I know and can see, Kruger is still odd man out.

FWIW - Kruger's KC performance was considerably better than his OAK performance. About 80-85% better.

Oh...Kruger is gone.

I am sure the team (and myself for that matter) would love to keep him, but even at a modest salary, we can't invest much more than another rookie contract at that OLB spot.