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  1. #97
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense



    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Especially when you seen Jimmy and Cary do a pretty good job jamming receivers last year, Pagano had them doing that a lot.
    I thought that the entire reason why they drafted Jimmy was BECAUSE he was such a good press-cover corner.

    Jamming WR's at the line of scrimmage (when effective) can disrupt the passing temp and timing, which also can give your front 7 more time to get to the QB. That's the whole point.

    You either make the QB hesitate and force him to take a sack or throw the ball away. OR he throws a bad pass and gets picked off.


    Why Dean Pees isn't doing this, I cannot fathom.
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  2. #98

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    The Ravens had one of the worse pass rush in the league while Mattison was in town. Yes they were pretty stingy in terms of yards allowed etc, but they blew a lot of games in the Mattison era that our offense kept us in. The Atlanta Falcons game comes to mind back in 2010, we almost lost in Houston who went 5-11 that year because of our defense, and who can forget about San Diego who had close to 500 yards of offense back in 09.

    That defense was not as bad as todays, but I think that probably has to do with not having Suggs for a few games, aswell as no Jarret Johnson or Cory Redding.
    Let me first say that I did not like Mattison at all. And I agree with the pressure thing, but you also have to remember that instead of Webb playing at pro bowl level, 1st round pick Jimmy Smith and a 6-1 CB who can run like the wind, Mattison was having to deal with Frank Walker, Fabian Washington (who couldn't find another job anywhere else), Chris Carr (who can't find a job anywhere else), and Dawan Landry playing huge roles in his secondary...you can't do a lot of creative things when your secondary is that suspect. Plus, he had Suggs coming in one year incredibly overwieght and out of shape.

    And the Atlanta game in 2010...how did the offense keep us in a game that they didn't score a point until midway through the 3rd quarter? I happen to think the defense kept us in that game as our offense couldn't get out of its own way for 2 and half quarters. And the Houston game....yes they should have done a better job of holding them, but did our offense get a single first down the second half? And the defense did come up with the big play to win that game. San Diego...well, Chuck's defense didn't do much to slow the Chargers down either last year.

    Again, I'm not a fan of Mattison, but I think part of the disgust with him and Pees is that we are used to seeing a lot of blitzes with success with Rex. I think Pees and Mattison are "average" DC's...they aren't very good, but I don't think they are the car wreck that many try and make them out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I don't think anyone could really argue that losing Redding and JJ didn't or is not impacting this defensive unit. Definitely is. Especially JJ. Redding - as good as he was/is - did miss some time last year and Art Jones and McPhee split time there and this D was still getting the job done.


    I just think Chuck P did a much better job at getting the most out of these guys and Dean Pees is more of a traditional 3-4 and isn't quite sure how to use the talent to the best of their ability.

    Case and point: The cornerbacks. If you know that 2 out of your top 3 corners are at their best when they are at the LOS and jamming receivers...then why line them up 8-10 yards off? That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
    I think you are underestimating the amount of plays Redding was in there. Sure he was part of a small rotation, but there is a huge difference between Jones playing say, 15% of our defensive snaps to 65%. Same with McPhee who pretty much only came in on passing downs and replaced Cody as opposed to Redding.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #99
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Did Jameel McClain look better last year? Yea, but so did Cody, Art Jones, Kruger, McPhee, Jimmy, and Cary. I think losing Chuck Pagano hurt A LOT more than losing Corey Redding and JJ (not to say that those two losses don't have an impact). I just think Pags knew how to get the most out of the talent that he had on defense and right now Dean Pees isn't sure how to get that same performance. I refuse to believe that ALL of those guys regressed over the off-season. It is far more likely that Dean Pees is having a hard time figuring out how to use everyone to their strengths. I mean, we can see that in the secondary by having both Jimmy and Cary playing 8-10 yards off when last year they were successful by playing press coverage and jamming the WR's at the line of scrimmage. That is a change in scheme and defensive philosophy, not a drop-off in talent.

    I will say that even with McClain playing better last year, he still was never very good in coverage and in today's NFL you need a MLB who can cover.
    Agree!

    I have come to my own conclusions as to why.
    Pags had players playing to their strengths,
    We lost some very functional pieces, not superstars, but players who forced offenses into some patterns and out of others.
    Water under the dam to discuss in detail, but Redding when he lined up in the middle was pass rush penetration.
    And JJ shut down the edge.

    When Redding was middle, Ed could gamble as we saw him do this year....but without Cory's pressure, the QB could flick his eyes and spot a WR alone in the endzone.... with Cory, he throws the ball to where Ed is heading.

    Likewise last year we could see Kruger/Ray flip and Ray rush while Kruger provided pass defense.
    This year Kruger has moved into JJ's role and Ray is even more exposed in middle coverage.

    With the pieces that departed, Pags system will no longer work as it did. I'm not saying that Pags couldn't tweak it and re-configure it.
    I really believe he could. Pags set things so that he had his players playing in their strengths and their weakness covered as much as possible. And we saw players playing impressively.

    Pees has come in and because of the workmanlike players lost, cannot use Pags old system, and Pags is gone and not going to offer advice on what new tweaks should be started.
    Pees has an ok system of his own, but we have run into OCs that are able to expose and exploit the weakness(s) we have (and we have a bunch). We have seen one half-time tweak of changing where the DL lined up, and a second half shutdown, so Pees is better than Mattison (IMO).... and in fairness, injuries have hurt him, as has has what bmorecareful said on page 1
    The Ravens have already depended on those two to anchor the defense one year too long.
    We need a Dc who can play 3 card monty and we don't have one.
    Pees needs some new players and healthy players, and players to step up with increased responsibility improvement.

    That is the key to what we are seeing in the plummet down the chart in D standings. It doesn't look like anyone of the players we were impressed with last year have added anything more... McClain is McClain, Ellerbe is Ellerbe et al and this year OC are exposing their weaknesses instead of having to play into their strengths.
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  4. #100
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    For anyone interested, here is my 3rd round:

    Round 3
    63. Jacksonville Jaguars – Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia (5’9” 177lbs)
    . Austin is small, but he is a home run threat every time he touches the ball. Jacksonville needs play makers.

    64. Kansas City Chiefs – Jessie Williams, DT, Alabama (6’4” 320lbs). Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey have never lived up to their 1st round status. Romeo Crennell could look for 3-4 components and Williams has been a starter at NT in Alabama’s 3-4.

    65. Cleveland Browns – John Simon, DE, Ohio State (6’2” 265lbs). Cleveland really needs to consider getting someone opposite of Jabaal Sheard. Simon is a good pass rusher and plays the run well.

    66. Oakland Raiders – Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma (6’4” 229lbs). Jones has a solid arm with good accuracy, but he has struggled this year and it is going to reflect in his draft stock. Still, he’d be a good guy to stash on the bench and sit behind Carson Palmer for a year or two.

    67. San Francisco 49ers – Margus Hunt, DE, Southern Methodist (6’8” 285lbs).
    Ricky Jean-Francois and Isaac Sopoaga are free agents, so there may be a need to address depth guys who can fit into a 3-4 scheme. Hunt is really raw, but has a tremendous amount of upside.

    68. Indianapolis Colts – Sanders Commings, CB/S, Georgia (6’2” 209lbs).
    Chuck Pagano loves physical cornerbacks and the Colts really have struggled in their secondary this year. Commings is a big corner with nice cover skills and uses his size very well.

    69. Buffalo Bills – Kenny Stills, WR, Oklahoma (6’1” 189lbs). Stevie Johnson is the only real receiver on the Bills right now. They need to consider adding someone who can start opposite of Johnson. Stills is a crisp route runner and has nice ability with the ball in his hands.

    70. Tennessee Titans – Dion Sims, TE, Michigan State (6’5” 275lbs).
    Sims is a solid all-around TE. He blocks well and he has nice soft hands for a big guy. Jared Cooks has asked the Titans for a trade and unless they tag him it seems unlikely that he’ll be back next year.

    71. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Oday Aboushi, OT, Virginia (6’6” 310lbs)
    . Aboushi is a pretty underrated player. He’s a good run blocker and he is a solid pass blocker. After this season the Bucs may want to consider some different options to replace Donald Penn with because of how badly he has played.

    72. Cincinnati Bengals – Matt Elam, S, Florida (5’10” 208lbs). Taylor Mays commits way too many penalties and the Bengals have been playing with Nate Clements at strong safety. They need an upgrade and Elam is excellent against the run.

    73. New York Jets – Ryan Swope, WR, Texas A&M (6’1” 207lbs). Unless the Jets can land someone like Tyler Wilson or Tyler Bray in round 2, I think that poor Jets fans will suffer through another season with Mark Sanchez. Some feel that he just needs better weapons. We’ll see. Swope brings nice skills to the table as a slot receiver with great hands and above average speed.

    74. St. Louis Rams – Arthur Brown, LB, Kansas State (6’1” 225lbs).
    Any help the Rams can get on defense should be welcomed with open arms. Some folks are comparing Brown to Lavonte David, who has been a solid rookie contributor for the Bucs this year. Brown is a tackling machine and has nice upside.

    75. Miami Dolphins – DJ Fluker, OT, Alabama (6’6” 335lbs). Fluker is enormous, but he really just doesn’t have the footwork to play tackle, so dropping him down to guard might suit him best because he is a monster run blocker. The Dolphins are probably going to look for a replacement because both Richie Incognito and John Jerry probably should be depth players.
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  5. #101
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    76. New Orleans Saints – Bennie Logan, DT, LSU (6’3” 290lbs). The Saints can’t seem to ever find guys who fill out their 4-3 front. They’ve invested a lot in linebacker and both Cameron Jordan and Sedrick Ellis are good run defenders, but they really need a guy who can be more disruptive in the middle. Logan has a great motor and can get off the ball quickly. Plus, he’s a local guy. Why wouldn’t they want him?

    77. Dallas Cowboys – Aaron Murray, QB, Georgia (6’1” 215lbs). Dallas really needs to start thinking about life after Tony Romo, which could come sooner rather than later with the way the Cowboys have been playing. Murray has a solid arm, but he is incredibly accurate. Some think his height may be a concern, but that hasn’t stopped Drew Brees or Russell Wilson.

    78. San Diego Chargers – Alex Hurst, OT, LSU (6’6” 330lbs). Hurst has predominately been a right tackle for LSU, but has moved over to the left side this year due to injuries to Chris Faulk. Hurst has held his own at left tackle, but he would probably be best suited as a guard in the NFL. The Chargers really need to address their issues on the offensive line.

    79. Philadelphia Eagles – Shawn Williams, S, Georgia (6’1” 220lbs).
    Kurt Coleman is a feisty player, but he isn’t very good against the run and is more of a threat to commit a personal foul than anything. Williams is a hard-hitting safety who diagnoses plays well and reacts quickly.

    80. Detroit Lions – Brandon Jenkins, DE, Florida State (6’3” 260lbs). Jenkins was valued as one of the best pass rushers in college until he hurt his foot and had to sit out for the rest of the season. If he hadn’t gotten hurt he may have been selected in round 1. Detroit gets a steal here to hopefully replace Cliff Avril.

    81. Arizona Cardinals – Corey Lemonier, DE, Auburn (6’4” 240lbs). Lemonier is an undersized defensive end that may be best suited for a 3-4 team and moving to OLB. The Cardinals have one of the better defenses in the league, but you can never have too many pass rushers.

    82. Minnesota Vikings – Sheldon Richardson, DE/DT, Missouri (6’4” 295lbs). Richardson is incredibly athletic, but he is inconsistent. If the Vikings can get him to put forth 100% then he could turn into a very good player. I think the Vikings could use him as a DT or a left end across from Jared Allen.

    83. Washington Redskins – Michael Mauti, LB, Penn State (6’2” 239lbs). Mauti is a good run defender and an intelligent player, but he leaves a bit to be desired in space. Still, he has some upside and London Fletcher can’t play forever.

    84. Miami Dolphins – Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt (6’3” 205lbs).
    Miami continues to try and bring in some better talent at receiver for Ryan Tannehill. Brian Hartline is a decent player, but he can’t do it all himself. Matthews has been really impressive this season and as a result has seen his stock rise nicely.

    85. Seattle Seahawks – Chase Thomas, OLB, Stanford (6’4” 245lbs)
    . Thomas is a pretty underrated defender, but there is reason to think that he could play multiple positions on defense including ILB, OLB, LB in a 4-3, and DE in some packages. I think Pete Carroll will continue to try and build a young and athletic defense that can function in multiple fronts.

    86. Pittsburgh Steelers – Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina (6’3” 320lbs)
    . Pittsburgh needs to inject youth into their defense. Casey Hampton is old and can’t stay on the field for more than a few snaps at a time. Williams is a stout run defender and could probably play NT for the Steelers as well as DE.

    87. New England Patriots – Kyle Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech (5’11” 190lbs).
    The Patriots have really been working the draft to rebuild their defense, but their secondary still underachieves. Ras-I Dowling is just ok, Devin McCourty seems to regress every year, and Kyle Arrigton doesn’t scare anyone. Fuller is a solid physical corner.

    88. Denver Broncos – Quinton Patton, WR, Louisiana Tech (6’2” 199lbs). Patton is one of the best-kept secrets in college football right now. He catches everything and isn’t afraid to work the middle of the field. Denver has two really good receivers, but then there is a pretty significant drop off in talent. Patton would be a good one to replace Brandon Stokley in the slot.

    89. Baltimore Ravens – Taylor Hart, DT, Oregon (6’6” 290lbs)
    . Hart is a high motor kid with raw strength and athleticism. He’s the type of defensive lineman that Baltimore looks for because he is tough against the run and can play multiple positions. Baltimore’s defense really has been abysmal. They need guys up front who can stop the run and pressure the QB.

    90. Atlanta Falcons – Stepfan Taylor, RB, Stanford (5’11” 210lbs)
    . Michael Turner is still a good back, but being a bigger running back the Falcons should be concerned with how much longer he can carry the load. Jacquizz Rodgers is a nice change of pace back, but they need someone who can carry the load and Taylor has been a workforce for Stanford. Good vision, good hands, and knows how to pick up blitzers.

    91. Green Bay Packers – Joseph Fauria, TE, UCLA (6’6” 260lbs)
    . Jermichael Finley says there is no chemistry between himself and Aaron Rogers. That probably has a lot to do with the fact that Finley drops every other pass thrown his direction. Fauria is a solid run blocker and brings nice receiving skills to the table. He should give Rogers a more consistent effort at TE.

    92. San Francisco 49er’s – Marcus Davis, WR, Virginia Tech (6’4” 230lbs). Michael Crabtree finally is looking like the top tiered talent the niners drafted in round 1, but after him they have a lot of role players and no one who can really line up as a #2 receiver. Davis is a big-bodied receiver with surprising speed. If he reaches his potential he could be every bit as good as guys like Brandon Marshall and Demaryius Thomas.

    93. Houston Texans – Trevardo Williams, DE, UCONN (6’3” 233lbs). It is going to be very difficult for Houston to retain Connor Barwin, so there is reason to think that they could be in the market for a replacement pass rusher to provide depth behind Brooks Reed and Whitney Mercilus. Williams has relentless speed and quickness off the edge. He is a bit on the small side, but there is no denying his talent as a pure pass rusher.

    94. New York Giants – William Gholston, DE, Michigan State (6’7” 277lbs). Gholston has the physical talent to be a 1st round pick, but he is inconsistent and some question his work ethic. I think Tom Coughlin is the type of coach who could really get a lot out of Gholston and considering Osi Umenyiora may not be a Giant next year, they could use the depth.
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  6. #102
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Wicked,

    CJ Mosley is a good player and he would definitely fill a big need but if Taylor Lewan were available when we pick, wouldn't he be a better choice if he can be a good LT? I am tired of all of the problems we are having on the OL at that position. You would know better than most of us as to Lewan's ability to be a good LT or not. There are still good ILB choices later on in the draft. I just don't think there are many posibilities at LT in this draft in the later rounds (although if we can pick up Ryan Clady in free agency that would solve our LT problem fast).

    What are your thoughts on Lewan as a LT?




  7. #103
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Getting a true LT prospect would be awesome for the line. Hopefully upgrade the LT position, upgrade the RT by putting Oher back there and upgrade the LG position with Osemele... in one move you can upgrade three fifth of the line.... if it works.

    But that run defence and lack of passrush is getting harder and harder to ignore.




  8. #104
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by PalladinInNC View Post
    Wicked,

    CJ Mosley is a good player and he would definitely fill a big need but if Taylor Lewan were available when we pick, wouldn't he be a better choice if he can be a good LT? I am tired of all of the problems we are having on the OL at that position. You would know better than most of us as to Lewan's ability to be a good LT or not. There are still good ILB choices later on in the draft. I just don't think there are many posibilities at LT in this draft in the later rounds (although if we can pick up Ryan Clady in free agency that would solve our LT problem fast).

    What are your thoughts on Lewan as a LT?
    Mosley is a better overall player than Lewan is, IMO.

    Secondly, this OL didn't look too bad when the Ravens were running out of the no huddle with Flacco calling plays at the line of scrimmage. WHY they continue to not do that is beyond me.

    I like Lewan a lot, but I like Mosley more and I'm not sure that Lewan is SO much better than some of the other lineman that are grading out in the 2nd round. I also think Mosley would be a great fit in this defense. A lot of the reasons the Ravens have had such close calls is because the defense can't get off the field. They can't stop the run very well and they can't stop the pass at all. Even when Webb was healthy, the middle of the field was just WIDE the fuck open for anyone who felt like running there.
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  9. #105
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Also guys, don't rule out them giving KO a shot at LT next year.
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  10. #106

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Also guys, don't rule out them giving KO a shot at LT next year.
    I heard he was getting reps there at practice this week.




  11. #107
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenalytics View Post
    I heard he was getting reps there at practice this week.
    with Oher at RT?
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  12. #108

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef View Post
    Getting a true LT prospect would be awesome for the line. Hopefully upgrade the LT position, upgrade the RT by putting Oher back there and upgrade the LG position with Osemele... in one move you can upgrade three fifth of the line.... if it works.

    But that run defence and lack of passrush is getting harder and harder to ignore.
    2-down DTs were hot during the run first days, so 1 or 2 down DE/OLBs should be hot now, yes?

    Ziggy Ansah could be a situational OLB or you could beef him up 10-15 lbs and put him at DE.
    Plays all across the 3-4 front at BYU.
    The JPP comparisons are already out there, but Ziggy has less competitive football under his belt FWIW.
    He leaps, pursues, closes, and pops very well. Not saying much, but he'd be our 2nd best pass rusher immediately.
    Not sure where I'd slot him, but some jerk GM will probably take him at the top of the 2nd round.




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