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  1. #13
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    Re: Leach versus Grubbs



    I think the OP may be giving Grubbs too much credit for the resurgence of the OL. Recall, if you will, that McKinnie wasn't signed until August 24 of last year, 18 days & 1 preseason game before opening day to learn calls & settle in with the rest of the OL. Grubbs was (& is) a good LG but part of his value that year was as someone who knew the system & as McKinnie's bridge to the rest of the line, could help him acclimatize. Once Grubbs went out, McKinnie was playing next to (first) the disaster known as LeVoir and (later) Gurode, who were not only less able than Grubbs but were also newcomers trying to settle into the system.

    In sum, I don't think retaining Grubbs would have been quite so dramatic an upgrade as the OP seems to think over either Williams or Harewood, & I expect (or hope) that gap will narrow as the season progresses & everyone gets more experience playing next to one another.

    Leach, meanwhile, is a force of nature, but he can only block one man at a time, & when he's leading Rice he's also showing the defense where the attack is coming. Giving him carries & swing passes is a good idea just to give the opponents something else to defend against, but maybe the team should explore a bit of misdirection keyed to him (keeping him in to pass block, faking dives into the line while Rice bounces outside for a flip from Flacco, etc.).





  2. #14

    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    That's getting more to the heart of the matter: WDRRT(what does Ray Rice think)? Leach is a luxury only if Rice can still be Rice w/o Leach's blocking. I have noticed that Leach is getting a few more outlet passes this year. I want the ball in Ray Rice's hands 20-25 times a game, but if Leach can take some of the more routine open field hits on little dump-offs by Joe, it will extend Rice's career.
    Grubbs was solid and had the data that showed we struggled eary in the 2011 season when he was out, but he alone is not what's missing from the OL. Birk is a year older, the OT are still not sorted out. Oher should be at RT ideally, & there is no answer yet @ LT. McKinnie is past prime and [apparently] "not playing like a Raven; KO too green for LT (but would have been a better than stop gap solution to replace Grubbs if we had had an LT ready to go).
    Ok, point taken on Rice's lack of 3rd and long runs, it was just an example I threw out with absolutely ZERO research.

    But I still disagree. Baltimore, Houston and San Fran have all been amongst the few best teams in football the past couple of years. 2 out of 4 teams in the championship games were running teams(Bmore and San Fran) and Bmore possibly only beat Houston because Schaub was out. The power run game, IMO is not dead. Consistantly being able and willing to run for 4 yards per carry will still win more games then you will lose.




  3. #15
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    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    They offered Grubbs the same contract as Yanda. That was with Leach on the team. There was room for both at that price.
    Last edited by GOTA; 10-25-2012 at 04:36 AM.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #16
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    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Grubbs got overpaid by New Orleans, cut and dry.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    OK, a slightly different slant: Since we are "stuck" (LOL!!!) with the best FB in football, can we not make use of him in the passing game?

    Pass to Rice, Boldin, Torry, and Jacoby or Pitta (depending on yardage needed). Play Leach in the backfield, bolstering Flacco's pass protection -- with our O line, Leach will be plenty busy! He is no great threat as a runner, but he's good for a few yards and he's not hopeless as a check-off receiver. Not being totally facetious here -- Leach might be able to get Flacco that extra half second he needs. And I'll bet he wouldn't hesitate to plant a leaping D lineman.




  6. #18
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    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    OK, a slightly different slant: Since we are "stuck" (LOL!!!) with the best FB in football, can we not make use of him in the passing game?

    Pass to Rice, Boldin, Torry, and Jacoby or Pitta (depending on yardage needed). Play Leach in the backfield, bolstering Flacco's pass protection -- with our O line, Leach will be plenty busy! He is no great threat as a runner, but he's good for a few yards and he's not hopeless as a check-off receiver. Not being totally facetious here -- Leach might be able to get Flacco that extra half second he needs. And I'll bet he wouldn't hesitate to plant a leaping D lineman.
    They are already doing it.

    He was in the slot numerous times against the Texans and I believe he caught a pass out of the slot once or twice.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #19

    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    It is clear that Ravens fans have been so spoiled by draft success that they undervalue players who provide stability. Since Grubbs wasn't an All-Pro caliber player, like most of the Ravens' first round picks, he was overrated. However, they now lack stability at the position and could be looking at their third LG already (Osemele).

    The same went with Jarret Johnson and Cory Redding.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #20
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    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Ben Grubbs was always so overrated, and was only an average run blocker. Yes he was a good pass blocker, but I don't think he's worth the money that New Orleans are currently paying him. He was a solid pick by Ozzie, but his 3rd round pick that same year has been a better player than him and that's why they paid Yanda and not Grubbs.

    I remember that draft well. OZ coveted Joe Staley to replace JO who would have had a year to groom him. Perfect scenario until former Raven assistant, Mike Nolin under Billick, knew Oz wanted Staley and traded above Oz to get him. Nolan left the Ravens to coach SF.

    But it was a costly move because he gave up a future #1 and that cost him his job later when he was fired and didn't have enough talent.

    But Ozzie's press conference was like a morgue. The company line said they were satisfied
    with Grubbs, the next best player on Ozzie's board but you could tell by their body
    language they were livid about losing Staley.

    And we wouldn't have all these probs moving Oher back and forth.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN!




  9. #21
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    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Grubbs also had a turf toe which we know linger. I was glad they didn't overpay for him.




  10. #22

    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Agree that Grubbs was overrated and not worth what he received from New Orleans. On the other hand...

    No disrespect to Mr. Leachisabeast, and clearly Leach is indeed a beast, but fullback is a dead position in the NFL and I don't think he's worth 3.5m. I love his physicality and he certainly improves the run game, but I don't think he fits the direction this team is going at all.

    So far in 2012, Ray Rice is only averaging 4.5 yards per carry out of the I-formation and 5.8 out of 3-wide sets. Statistically, Rice is running the football better WITHOUT Leach on the field than WITH. (stats from ProFootballWeekly's splits section)

    I think this needs to be a single-back offense that spreads you out and then hits you with the run. We can still be a Ray Rice-centric offense without being an I-formation, fullback friendly offense.
    Good post. I do think Rice is more effective when the offense is spread out. With Leach in the game that goes away. Rice is not a power running back. If the Ravens had Jamal Lewis of old back there with Leach the offense would awesome.
    Last edited by srobert96; 10-25-2012 at 07:40 AM.




  11. #23

    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Not sure if you guys remember, but we did want Grubbs and offered him a pretty similar deal by most reports. He didnt want to play here anymore and went to play for his hometown team. I agree with Jonboy though, its not really one for one situation. If Grubbs did choose to sign that deal and stay we would have had issues and no Jones. I certainly would have been fine with that before the season, but hes been a nice surprise and im not sure what we lost with Grubbs isnt made up for by Jones, Williams, and Leach.
    -JAB




  12. #24

    Re: Leach versus Grubbs

    Grubbs was overpaid and not having a stellar year, but he's not awful either.
    Scoring as the 24th ranked OG while allowing 2 sacks, 2 hits and 2 hurries as per PFF.com.
    (Yanda scores at the 2nd ranked OG, just a hair behind Alex Boone)

    Paying $65M to your OGs is just a bit crazy, so for that reason alone, I favor Leach.
    However, I'd be fine with a 3WR/1TE (byebye Dickson) + Rice and Pierce platooning the single back position, if we'd put Leach's $3M into the OL.




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