Sunday a must win in Cleveland?

**celticrob** · 11-03-2012, 06:59 PM

Similarities to 2007? No 1 Flacco >Kyle Boller and an oft injured McNair. As bad as the DBS have been we don't have a washed up McCallister and a horrific Cory Ivy. We had serious injuries throuout 2007. Billick was checked out. In 2007 we were 4-2 but 0-2 in the division with losses to Cleveland and Cincy. The same people predicting our demise, also said we would lose the final game to Cincy last year. The NFL season is week to week. Pittsburgh lost to Oakland and Tennessee on the road and everyone was predicting doom for the Stellers. Now everyone here is saying Pittsburgh is going to win the division and we will miss the playoffs. We had a poor game. Much in the same manner we did against San Diego last year. Our D is not as strong but I'm willing to let the season play out. Week to Week people. Week to Week!

**Beerracuda** · 11-03-2012, 07:49 PM

Tomorrow is an important game for a couple reasons. First of which is to show that we're a better team than what we showed in Houston. But also, it's quite possible that Pitt goes into NY and gets beat, so a win over the Browns will give us a 2 game cushion once again. Pitt has a pretty easy schedule after Sunday, so it would be nice to have some margin for error the rest of the season.

**Ravenous1** · 11-03-2012, 10:03 PM

When your 5-2 its kinda of hard to call any game a MUST WIN game. That said, this is about as close as you can get to this scenario. Considering the beat down handed to us in Houston and the schedule ahead, a loss tomorrow would seem to indicate that the road ahead could get pretty ugly. A solid win could be more indicative that the loss in Houston while a bad one, was more of a perfect storm than the ongoing norm.

**ravenjoe** · 11-03-2012, 11:07 PM

The game of football is a lot Mental, and so a loss tomorrow could do a lot to destroy an already fragile team psyche, sending this team into a dangerous, possibly season ending tailspin.

**JMUpurkfool** · 11-03-2012, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

I hear you but you'd have to admit their hopes aren't improving.

Hopes to do what?

I feel like their hopes are pretty much the same as they were from the win against Dallas. We had lost a couple key players and seen that our defense was far from the status quo. Our offense had displayed carry over from last years road woes. Many here expected us to go to Houston and get whooped.

My hopes are high. I still think this team has as much talent as any and I'm somewhat confident that the team used this bye week to fix some of our problems.

The NY Giants were swept by the Skins last year. If that doesn't give you hope for our team than I don't know what will.

Go Ravens

**Corvus Corax** · 11-04-2012, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Beerracuda

Tomorrow is an important game for a couple reasons. First of which is to show that we're a better team than what we showed in Houston. But also, it's quite possible that Pitt goes into NY and gets beat, so a win over the Browns will give us a 2 game cushion once again. Pitt has a pretty easy schedule after Sunday, so it would be nice to have some margin for error the rest of the season.

This sums it up for me. Coming off of a much needed bye, the game in Cleveland is a crucial opportunity for the Ravens to restore their confidence as a team. They need to reestablish themselves as a solid contender with an important road victory (keep their intra-divisional winning streak intact) while staying AHEAD of the Steelers.

**Ravens75** · 11-04-2012, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

They eventually snapped the 9 game skid with a win over the Steelers in the season finale at home by the score of 27-21.

The win was essentially a gift from Bill Cowher who rested most of his starters because a win would not affect the Steelers post season seeding.

Sorry but this incorrect and leaves out a lot of other facts about that game.

Mike Tomlin was the coach. Cowher retired after the 2006 season.

The Steelers did rest Ben and Troy but played the rest of their starters into the 3rd quarter but rested them after they found out that the Chargers were going to win and retain the 3rd seed. To that point though the damage had been done because the Ravens had already gashed them badly with the running game and had a 20-7 lead. The Steelers were trying to avoid playing Jacksonville who was on a roll and had beaten them already that season.

Lastly the Ravens were playing with Troy Smith, Musa Smith and Cory Ross. This was not the Ravens 1's versus the Steelers 3rd string as many think it was and in reality a Steelers D even without Troy should've shut out the Ravens 3rd and 4th stringers.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/200712...vens#tab=recap

As for the comparison to 2007 I think its a little off. The Ravens D then was off because of injuries to their corners and an injured Trevor Pryce basically aging before our eyes (how he made it to 2010 is beyond me). The offense was simply putrid but had really slowed from the middle of the 2006 season so the injuries to McNair, JO and yes Demetrius Williams basically grounded them (not to mention that the oline had 3 rookies along with Mike Flynn who makes Matt Birk look likes he's in his prime).

This year the D has dealt with major injuries but truthfully they were playing below standard. At this point the best we can expect is a bend but don't break defense that can at least hold decent to below average teams to FG's. The wild card is the offense. They simply have to consistently produce. With no major injuries on that side of the ball they should be better than this. While the o line is not the best in pass protection, stats show that they are not bad run blockers which leads me to the point everyone has been trying to make........run the ball more often.

If the Ravens run the ball its does so many positive things for not only the offense but for the team in general. The offense eats up TOP, they can run play action effectively (press man is limited) and the defense stays off the field. For some reason this team has simply not played to their strengths especially on the road. Everyone who has ever played states that on the road you have to bring your defense and your running game and while the D is below average the running game is still there and can cover for a multitude of weaknesses.

This season doesn't have to be a repeat of 2007 because the Ravens clearly have more talent and experience than that team however if the coaching staff and specifically John Harbaugh continue to play into the opponents hands it will become just another bad dream. If that happens, the owner is going to have to consider significant changes going into 2013 including at the very least putting the HC on notice.

**Beerracuda** · 11-04-2012, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Ravens75

If the Ravens run the ball its does so many positive things for not only the offense but for the team in general.

I've been saying this for weeks now. Run the ball often - Rice is one of our best weapons - but be patient with it. Pass mostly with screens and slants. Make Rice a major part of this offense, and use Boldin for what he does best - crossing patterns underneath. Control the TOP and keep the defense off the field as much as possible.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-04-2012, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ravens75

The Steelers did rest Ben and Troy but played the rest of their starters into the 3rd quarter but rested them after they found out that the Chargers were going to win and retain the 3rd seed. To that point though the damage had been done because the Ravens had already gashed them badly with the running game and had a 20-7 lead. The Steelers were trying to avoid playing Jacksonville who was on a roll and had beaten them already that season.

Lastly the Ravens were playing with Troy Smith, Musa Smith and Cory Ross. This was not the Ravens 1's versus the Steelers 3rd string as many think it was and in reality a Steelers D even without Troy should've shut out the Ravens 3rd and 4th stringers.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/200712...vens#tab=recap

Yes, Tony got the coaches wrong but that link doesn't help your argument.

As that game recap clearly shows it was second string v. second string that night and we managed to pull it out.

So yes, it was a gift from Tomlin. They had nothing to play for.

**TL24x7** · 11-04-2012, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

Hopes to do what?

I feel like their hopes are pretty much the same as they were from the win against Dallas. We had lost a couple key players and seen that our defense was far from the status quo. Our offense had displayed carry over from last years road woes. Many here expected us to go to Houston and get whooped.

My hopes are high. I still think this team has as much talent as any and I'm somewhat confident that the team used this bye week to fix some of our problems.

The NY Giants were swept by the Skins last year. If that doesn't give you hope for our team than I don't know what will.

Go Ravens

Maybe I should have qualified that by saying "realistic hopes." If yours are "realistically" high at this point, we're not seeing the same team and I truly hope your expectations are realized and certainly not mine. I think a playoff berth is in serious jeopardy and if they lose today, unless a team can sneak in at 9-7, I don't see 5 wins on the back end of the 16 game schedule. Not this team with their road struggles and sieve-like defense.

TODAY IS A MUST WIN...PERIOD!

**TL24x7** · 11-04-2012, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Ravens75

Sorry but this incorrect and leaves out a lot of other facts about that game.

Mike Tomlin was the coach. Cowher retired after the 2006 season.

Nice catch...thank you.

Doesn't matter, the Steelers mailed it in.

**NC Raven** · 11-04-2012, 09:47 AM

Every game is a must win until they've secured home field in the playoffs.

Then in the playoffs theyre all must win.

It's rare in the NFL to have a game you can afford to lose.

**JMUpurkfool** · 11-04-2012, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

Maybe I should have qualified that by saying "realistic hopes." If yours are "realistically" high at this point, we're not seeing the same team and I truly hope your expectations are realized and certainly not mine. I think a playoff berth is in serious jeopardy and if they lose today, unless a team can sneak in at 9-7, I don't see 5 wins on the back end of the 16 game schedule. Not this team with their road struggles and sieve-like defense.

TODAY IS A MUST WIN...PERIOD!

I just think you are basing your outlook on what we have been at our worst. I'm basing mine off somewhere in between. This Ravens team has been dominant on offense AT TIMES. We have seen a better offense at points this year than we have ever seen in Baltimore. Although are defense has been a doormat, they have made a few plays that won games for us.

All I'm saying is that it has been far from pretty and the odds are that it won't be pretty from here on, but I don't see any reason why we can't at least split the rest of our games.

**mmi16** · 11-04-2012, 06:06 PM

A 'must' win and they won! Not pretty, not stylish but it was a W.

**Ravens75** · 11-04-2012, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Yes, Tony got the coaches wrong but that link doesn't help your argument.

As that game recap clearly shows it was second string v. second string that night and we managed to pull it out.

So yes, it was a gift from Tomlin. They had nothing to play for.

Second string versus 3rd and 4th string to be exact and again the Steelers were playing for seeding. Everyone with the exception of Mike Tomlin knew that playing the Jags was a nightmare scenario and it turned out to be true.

The most glaring aspect is that a top ranked Steelers defense even without Troy shouldn't have had much trouble with a 3rd string rookie QB,2rd string and 4th string RB's in a game where everyone knew the Ravens were going to run.

Sorry to come back at you like this but I pay attention to detail and get a little annoyed when perception gets in the way of facts.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-04-2012, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ravens75

Second string versus 3rd and 4th string to be exact and again the Steelers were playing for seeding. Everyone with the exception of Mike Tomlin knew that playing the Jags was a nightmare scenario and it turned out to be true.

The most glaring aspect is that a top ranked Steelers defense even without Troy shouldn't have had much trouble with a 3rd string rookie QB,2rd string and 3rd string RB's in a game where everyone knew the Ravens were going to run.

Sorry to come back at you like this but I pay attention to detail and I get a little annoyed when perception gets in the way of facts.

And I'm sorry you confuse your personal opinion as facts.

Equally annoying.

**Ravens75** · 11-04-2012, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

And I'm sorry you confuse your personal opinion as facts.

Equally annoying.

Its not an opinion. The record shows who played and the surprising outcome.

Nobody mailed it in but you go on thinking whatever you want UM.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-04-2012, 08:21 PM

Lets go back to that night then ...

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=271230033

First paragraph to the story ...

BALTIMORE (AP) -- The Pittsburgh Steelers had already accomplished their primary goals in the regular season, so the AFC North champions entered the finale against the Baltimore Ravens with a different objective: Stay healthy.

Stay healthy = mailing it in.

And I cannot help but notice the list if players out for Pittsburgh was a lot more than you listed ....

Ben, Ward, and Troy were out as well as a hand full of other players.

Like I said, personal opinion does not equal facts.

**Ravens75** · 11-04-2012, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Lets go back to that night then ...

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=271230033

First paragraph to the story ...

Stay healthy = mailing it in.

And I cannot help but notice the list if players out for Pittsburgh was a lot more than you listed ....

Ben, Ward, and Troy were out as well as a hand full of other players.

Like I said, personal opinion does not equal facts.

I stated Ben and Troy from the beginning. Ward was an important piece at that time as well but he was not as big a key Ben and Troy. Marvel Smith......please. The facts show that the Steelers primary defense save for Troy couldn't handle the 3rd and 4th string Ravens QB and RB's. If the Steelers had been playing all backups then we wouldn't be having this dialogue.

It is my opinion that the Steelers thought they could beat the Ravens with a rookie 3rd string QB even with resting 2-3 of their top players and maybe even move into to the 3 seed with a Charger loss. They got gashed and were exposed to a greater degree by the team that eventually eliminated them in Jacksonville. That was a lesson that Tomlin learned that year and has never repeated. Don't assume a damn thing because in this league nothing's promised.

We can agree to disagree and move on.