G-Men v. Stillers Thread

[PerpetuallyBored74]

OK then so by your logic Kyle Boller is Tom Brady without the luck because he benefitted from the "Tuck" Rule, LOL. Get serious, dude.

[wickedsolo]

You can't compare the Steelers who are a good team and are hardly ever in a situation where teams run the ball because they are far ahead to Cleveland who was bad.

If anything, teams approach the Steelers saying you have to throw the ball to beat them. And they still hold up extremely well.

That is a poor comparison

Fair enough.

Flacco lit them up twice last year and they had a better pass rush (arguably) than last year and they had Polamalu.

It's just strange that the Steelers got better in their secondary with Polamalu out for most of the year and a lackluster pass rush.

Again, I think a lot of this has to do with LeBeau. He's just that good of a defensive coordinator.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Fair enough.

Flacco lit them up twice last year and they had a better pass rush (arguably) than last year and they had Polamalu.

It's just strange that the Steelers got better in their secondary with Polamalu out for most of the year and a lackluster pass rush.

Again, I think a lot of this has to do with LeBeau. He's just that good of a defensive coordinator.

Along with Rex, I think he is the best defensive mind of the last 25 years or so. The guy is amazing with schemes...I can't tell you how many times opposing QB's and OC's have said that they always look like they have 12 guys on the field.

I think he is the second most important person on the team (including players and coaches) to Ben.

[alienrace]

Well the Giants really fell apart in this game, but I gotta say the Steelers defense is pretty damn good.

[4G63]

OK then so by your logic Kyle Boller is Tom Brady without the luck because he benefitted from the "Tuck" Rule, LOL. Get serious, dude.

Dude, I don't say this often, but do you have a soft skull?

[kojo]

Eli and Joe (and overall giants/ravens) to me are kinda mirroring each other. Funny enough the records reflect it too. Eli looked bad against the steelers AT HOME. he looked bad against the Cowboys his first game for a while, again AT HOME. We'll see what happens in December when Eli comes to town.

[Terpsfan82]

Dude, I don't say this often, but do you have a soft skull?

You cant really dismiss Eli's accomplishments by attributing them to "luck" without somebody calling you on it. I'm sorry but your argument is flawed. Flacco is a solid sometimes good quarterback who at times comes through in the clutch, when given the support (from his OC and his teammates). However Eli has now performed above that level for the past 4 seasons. He set the all time record for 4th quarter touchdown passes during the 2011 season, which shows he was consistently clutch. He has multiple Pro Bowls and multiple Superbowl wins. Was he lucky during those two playoff runs? At times, yes. No one can win a SB without benefitting from a little luck. But you have to put your team in the position to capitalize on it, too. Flacco is currently too inconsistent to say he's "Eli without the luck". Pre 2008 Eli maybe. But from 2008 on Eli's career has projected upward, while the Flacco post 2010 seems to have stagnated.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

You cant really dismiss Eli's accomplishments by attributing them to "luck" without somebody calling you on it. I'm sorry but your argument is flawed. Flacco is a solid sometimes good quarterback who at times comes through in the clutch, when given the support (from his OC and his teammates). However Eli has now performed above that level for the past 4 seasons. He set the all time record for 4th quarter touchdown passes during the 2011 season, which shows he was consistently clutch. He has multiple Pro Bowls and multiple Superbowl wins. Was he lucky during those two playoff runs? At times, yes. No one can win a SB without benefitting from a little luck. But you have to put your team in the position to capitalize on it, too. Flacco is currently too inconsistent to say he's "Eli without the luck". Pre 2008 Eli maybe. But from 2008 on Eli's career has projected upward, while the Flacco post 2010 seems to have stagnated.

The problem with comparing Joe to Eli or Ben is that Kevin Gilbride & Bruce Arians have NEVER been as bad as Cam has been these past 2 and-a-half seasons.
What's maddening is that Cam wasn't this bad in 2008 & 2009.
What happened to that Cam?
Why can't we have that Cam back?

Who ever heard of a 50 yr old coach with 20+ years experience regressing?

[ravenjoe]

Who ever heard of a 50 yr old coach regressing?

Trying to be somewhat objective here, but rather than constantly blame Cam for a lot of the offensive ineptitude we have seen, shouldn't Flacco shoulder a lot of the blame for not following though more on his progressions, for example - he seems to 'lock in' on his receivers a lot; try making plays out of nothing - Ben improvises more often than not, and is quite successful....just wondering? Also, it irks me that he does not spend time studying the opposing team's alignments and stratedy during times when he is not on the field; I notice many of the 'elite' QBs do this all of the time. It might also help if Joe showed some 'fire' on the field - it seems like both our O (and D) play without any apparent emotion, except, of course, when they are getting flagged for many of their 'after play' shenanigans. Sorry for making this a bash Flacco post.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Trying to be somewhat objective here, but rather than constantly blame Cam for a lot of the offensive ineptitude we have seen, shouldn't Flacco shoulder a lot of the blame for not following though more on his progressions, for example, and/or trying to make some plays out of nothing, much like the 'elite' QBs do....just wondering? Also, it irks me that he does not spend time studying the opposing team's alignments and stratedy during times when he is not on the field; I notice many of the 'elite' QBs do this all of the time. It might also help if Joe showed some 'fire' on occasion - it seems like both our O (and D) play without any apparent emotion, except, of course, when they are getting flagged for many of their 'after play' shenanigans. Sorry for making this a bash Flacco post.

Flacco unfortunately doesn't have the footspeed to get outside the tackles when the pass rush has already started to close in. He can do it, if he's already in the shotgun, or when it's a designed rollout, which begs the question, why isn't Cam & Harbs using designed rollouts this season? They worked against the Pats in the AFC championship game.

And Joe can't go through his progressions when his receivers are running patterns that take 4+ seconds and the pass protection breaks down in less than 4 seconds.

I agree with you that it doesn't seem that Joe is involved enough on the sidelines, but that begs the question, why isn't the coaching staff taking the initiative and getting him involved?

As for Flacco's demeanor, we have seen him fired up when the team is winning, or within striking distance, but when everything is going wrong, especially with the offense, Flacco just stoically resigns himself to what seems to be the inevitable. But Flacco's not the only one--pretty much the entire offense reacts this way. So, that brings up the question: Could it be the players know that if the gameplan's not working, then adjustments are probably not going to made in time to make a difference, so why should they bother to keep fighting the inevitable? How much faith do the offensive players have in Cam? You'd hear the players praising Pagano, but you never hear anyone praise Cam...other than Harbaugh.

[Lee Van Cleef]

I'm not saying Cruz and Torrey are the same.

I just wish Cam would use Torrey like the Giants use Cruz. Cruz has vertical speed, but they run him on a lot of short routes and underneath stuff to let him use his athleticism and ability to break tackles in order to pick up YAC. I think Torrey could be pretty effective doing that type of stuff along with going over the top.

Like he did for the TD last night? I agree, With an athlete of Torrey's caliber you want to get him the ball in space and let him make plays. Sadly Cam seems to think that entails end arounds and passes behind the line of scrimmage.

[lovefootball]

Flacco unfortunately doesn't have the footspeed to get outside the tackles when the pass rush has already started to close in. He can do it, if he's already in the shotgun, or when it's a designed rollout, which begs the question, why isn't Cam & Harbs using designed rollouts this season? They worked against the Pats in the AFC championship game.

And Joe can't go through his progressions when his receivers are running patterns that take 4+ seconds and the pass protection breaks down in less than 4 seconds.

I agree with you that it doesn't seem that Joe is involved enough on the sidelines, but that begs the question, why isn't the coaching staff taking the initiative and getting him involved?

As for Flacco's demeanor, we have seen him fired up when the team is winning, or within striking distance, but when everything is going wrong, especially with the offense, Flacco just stoically resigns himself to what seems to be the inevitable. But Flacco's not the only one--pretty much the entire offense reacts this way. So, that brings up the question: Could it be the players know that if the gameplan's not working, then adjustments are probably not going to made in time to make a difference, so why should they bother to keep fighting the inevitable? How much faith do the offensive players have in Cam? You'd hear the players praising Pagano, but you never hear anyone praise Cam...other than Harbaugh.

This last paragraph is what I saw during the Houston game. Does the offense have an issue with Cam and possibly Flacco considering they may have a problem agreeing on the call playing.Is Flacco becoming to big for his britches, meaning that his ego is pissing off Cam and other players on the offense. Possibly because of his contract that needs to be done.

[Jay D83]

Eli had his first bad game for like a year, Flacco has had quite a few bad games this year. Lets just face facts here, Eli is simply better. You can bring in the talent issue, but are they really more talented than us on offense?

I'll give you Cruz (who was an undrafted player need I remind you). But at this point Nicks is probably only slightly better than Boldin, and we have Ray Rice and Vonta Leach. The Giants have Bradshaw, who is very solid, but he isn't Ray Rice.

Eli had a bad game last week too @Dallas. Yes, at one point the score was 23-0 but those were off of Dallas' turnovers and a bazillion field goals.

Eli's QBR in that game? A glowing 48.2. That's not his only bad game either. He stunk it up in his first game against Philly and Dallas.

[Ravens75]

Well the Giants really fell apart in this game, but I gotta say the Steelers defense is pretty damn good.

The Steelers defense figured out the Giants especially in the second half. The key to them playing well has been their defensive line imo. The old veterans (Hampton and Keisel) are holding up which is what the Ravens guys aren't doing.

The Steelers have played well the last four games but have also had a bit of luck (see the Eagles game) like the Ravens. At this point they have no more than maybe two more losses in them. The Ravens simply have to either keep pace or sweep them. They have really only have two true road games left because the Slurs game in going to be an M&T South reunion and Cincy is hopefully going to be ready to go home and Marvin probably moving on.

We'll see.

[GOTA]

Eli had a bad game last week too @Dallas. Yes, at one point the score was 23-0 but those were off of Dallas' turnovers and a bazillion field goals.

Eli's QBR in that game? A glowing 48.2. That's not his only bad game either. He stunk it up in his first game against Philly and Dallas.

When you win 2 Super Bowls you're going to get a pass for some bad games.

It was very interesting watching the Falcons last night because lack of respect for the team and Ryan was the theme. At the start of the game Tony Gonzales said that the Falcons need to win in the playoffs and go to the Super Bowl before they've accomplished anything. At the end of the game Ryan said that 8-0 doesn't mean they've earned any respect. Eli and Ben have had more than their fair share of bad games over the years but those Super Bowls wins make their perception very different from that of Ryan and Flacco.

[Jay D83]

When you win 2 Super Bowls you're going to get a pass for some bad games.

It was very interesting watching the Falcons last night because lack of respect for the team and Ryan was the theme. At the start of the game Tony Gonzales said that the Falcons need to win in the playoffs and go to the Super Bowl before they've accomplished anything. At the end of the game Ryan said that 8-0 doesn't mean they've earned any respect. Eli and Ben have had more than their fair share of bad games over the years but those Super Bowls wins make their perception very different from that of Ryan and Flacco.

Everything that you said, I agree with/already know. I was just responding to the guy that said yesterday was Eli's first bad game this season - which is not true.

[4G63]

But you have to put your team in the position to capitalize on it, too. Flacco is currently too inconsistent to say he's "Eli without the luck". Pre 2008 Eli maybe.

This is what I'd call a lack of "luck".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0fpONkw6yk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-GrnnPVM

If any of those plays goes they way they should have, we're probably having a much different argument and could be talking about at least ONE Super Bowl win for Joe Flacco. Thats what I'm talking about. Eli is a great QB but just like Joe he craps the bed a few games a year.

[Terpsfan82]

This is what I'd call a lack of "luck".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0fpONkw6yk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-GrnnPVM

If any of those plays goes they way they should have, we're probably having a much different argument and could be talking about at least ONE Super Bowl win for Joe Flacco. Thats what I'm talking about. Eli is a great QB but just like Joe he craps the bed a few games a year.

You may be right, but unfortunately we'll never know. We're operating in reality, and all you can give me is woulda coulda shoulda. Eli has 2 rings, so he gets a pass like someone posted earlier. I'm a fan and I want to see Flacco do well, but he and Eli are not one and the same, despite Flacco being let down on occasion by his team.

[4G63]

You may be right, but unfortunately we'll never know. We're operating in reality, and all you can give me is woulda coulda shoulda.

Thanks for making my point! We truly don't know because Joe has never been given the chance by the "unlucky" play of his receivers. I'm not guaranteeing Flacco wins a SB either if he were to get there either, BTW.

[Ravenswintitle]

That's the way it goes sometimes. Eli got the win in Dallas last week when Dez was an 'out of bounds finger' away from the win. They wouldve carried Romo off the field, banged their chest about beating the world champs, but it didn't happen.