Dean Pees -- Props or Blame?

**NOLARavenFAN** · 11-05-2012, 09:41 AM

I thought Pees out-schemed the Browns in the second half.....without the defensive adjustments we were going to lose that game. Nice job coach DP.

**Jsmoove** · 11-05-2012, 09:57 AM

I may be in the minority but Pees gets no love from me with a 28th rank defense.

**DrUnk** · 11-05-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

I may be in the minority but Pees gets no love from me with a 28th rank defense.

+1

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 11-05-2012, 10:02 AM

Well, we probably would have won either way. Aside from the texans game, the Ravens offense ALWAYS scores a touchdown when they NEED to, and never anytime else.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-05-2012, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

I may be in the minority but Pees gets no love from me with a 28th rank defense.

+2

He gets a pat on the back from me for his squad not giving up a TD but this as far as I go.

There are still serious issues on defense, namely lack of blitzing and an effective pass rush.

**NOLARavenFAN** · 11-05-2012, 10:31 AM

We haven't got the horses right now guys......we are lucky we are where we are.

**leachisabeast** · 11-05-2012, 10:31 AM

I'm not saying it's all on Dean Pees for our ineffective pass rush, there is a serious lack of talent at certain positions on this team, mainly at nose tackle and corner, but Dean Pees really doesn't help things. If you look at Cincy for example, they get a bunch of sacks, with not many effective pass rushers, Carlos Dunlap and Geno Atkins are their only players who can really get any kind of pressure on the QB, but Mike Zimmer puts them in position to get sacks from everywhere, and he dials up some really exotic blitzes.

I have defended Pees up to this point, but after watching tape of the Cleveland game, I am now convinced that Pees simply is not working for this defense. I wonder if it's worth giving Ted a go at taking over this D now and see how it goes, maybe bring some energy to this unit that was once among the elite. Pees rushes 7 players at times, but they are just direct blitzes and easy to pick up, I never see stunts or anything like that, even with Suggs back we couldn't generate much against Cleveland. You can't tell me that Cory Redding and JJ really made THAT much difference as pass rushers, when both of them had less sacks than their replacements who were only rotational players (McPhee and Kruger.).

This is is a worth while debate, and I'm still not entirely sure on the matter, but I think it's time for a change in DC's.

**wickedsolo** · 11-05-2012, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN

We haven't got the horses right now guys......we are lucky we are where we are.

I disagree.

Losing Redding and JJ is a big deal, no doubt, but a majority of this defense was here last year and almost every current starter was a starter last year and/or played a significant amount.

Pees just isn't using the guys like Pags did. Plain and simple.

Case and point: The secondary. What looked like a strong press-man unit last year has quickly turned into a unit that gives up 8-10 yards a pop because the corners are playing so far off the receiver.

I thought the D stepped up nicely in the 2nd half yesterday, but it was also against the Browns and a QB who refused to throw it to his 1st read almost every snap. I don't know if you guys caught any of the commentary or not, but they were flipping out regarding how Brandon Weeden was literally passing over guys like Massequoi and Watson who were uncovered underneath on SEVERAL plays. If the Browns had a QB who could spread it around effectively, that likely would have been a very different game.

On the plus side, I will say that Jimmy Smith did a nice job on Massequoi and Greg Little because those guys didn't even register a reception IIRC. They pretty much picked on Cary Williams.

Frankly, I agree with Smoove on this one. The 28th ranked defense is nothing to be pleased about and a lot of it is because of Pees.

**Justlovemybirds** · 11-05-2012, 10:39 AM

I don't want to imply that its not worthy of debate, but Pee's isn't going to be"fired" mid-season.

While it definitely sucks when the defense under-performs, I've let go of any expectations and am just riding this season out.

**Jsmoove** · 11-05-2012, 10:44 AM

NOLA you are right, but at the same time where is the creativity? When Del rio had the jags yea they were a bad team but their defense was pretty solid, he had lemons and squeezed alot out of nothing. there's no creativity, no aggressive nature, no stunts, no confusion just a plain scheme, its eerily similar to mattisons defense.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 11-05-2012, 10:45 AM

here we go...

**Corey** · 11-05-2012, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

NOLA you are right, but at the same time where is the creativity? When Del rio had the jags yea they were a bad team but their defense was pretty solid, he had lemons and squeezed alot out of nothing. there's no creativity, no aggressive nature, no stunts, no confusion just a plain scheme, its eerily similar to mattisons defense.

It really is amazing that you can take virtually the same defense and they fall from top 5 to bottom 5. Our talent might not be as good as it was in it's hey day but damn man, it's not that bad. Good coaches find a way to get the most out of their players. Pees is not maximizing the talent on our defense. If we have to have freaking 1st round picks at every position on defense, your NEVER going to be good.

**bmore finest** · 11-05-2012, 11:12 AM

Pees and the D, need that Charm City Swagger back.. Not going to be fired now, but Pees is not a Ravens D type of coach. Swagger is missing, as someone said, it Feels like Mattison again!!

**Jsmoove** · 11-05-2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Corey

It really is amazing that you can take virtually the same defense and they fall from top 5 to bottom 5. Our talent might not be as good as it was in it's hey day but damn man, it's not that bad. Good coaches find a way to get the most out of their players. Pees is not maximizing the talent on our defense. If we have to have freaking 1st round picks at every position on defense, your NEVER going to be good.

exactly, how did we find those adalius's, those bart scott's, those Hartwell's, those Jj's, Mcrary's how did we ever find those guys? They all weren't number 1 picks hell some weren't even drafted, we had coaches back then who understood the personnel they had, they understood what worked, what schemes they could use to maximize that personnel group. Those guys probably wouldn't have made it if they were never given a shot, but the coaches (rex, nolan, del rio, marvin) put then in a situation to succeed. Why do we have 6'2 press cover corners playing 10yrds off the ball? Why are we sending middle backer blitz when we cant even get push from our Dline straight up? Or a middle backer blitz coming off the edge when that's slow blitz? Where are the stunts? Where is the presnap movements? Where is the shuffling aling the line putting guys in a place to take advantage of the other teams weakness? The floods, the overload blitzes? Where is all that shit?

**NOLARavenFAN** · 11-05-2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

exactly, how did we find those adalius's, those bart scott's, those Hartwell's, those Jj's, Mcrary's how did we ever find those guys? They all weren't number 1 picks hell some weren't even drafted, we had coaches back then who understood the personnel they had, they understood what worked, what schemes they could use to maximize that personnel group. Those guys probably wouldn't have made it if they were never given a shot, but the coaches (rex, nolan, del rio, marvin) put then in a situation to succeed. Why do we have 6'2 press cover corners playing 10yrds off the ball? Why are we sending middle backer blitz when we cant even get push from our Dline straight up? Or a middle backer blitz coming off the edge when that's slow blitz? Where are the stunts? Where is the presnap movements? Where is the shuffling aling the line putting guys in a place to take advantage of the other teams weakness? The floods, the overload blitzes? Where is all that shit?

Marvin, Rex Ryan.....they all had input. Now we lost Pagano.....we are getting raped talent-wise in coaching and thn FAs.

**Ravenswintitle** · 11-05-2012, 11:53 AM

very vanilla. I give them props for holding Believeland to field goals but it seems like they're going to have to go back to a little organized chaos

**ravenjoe** · 11-05-2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

I may be in the minority but Pees gets no love from me with a 28th rank defense.

+10, and counting!!!

**srobert96** · 11-05-2012, 12:07 PM

Blame.

Have not been impressed with Pees at all. I realize there was a loss of talent but it is no excuse to go from top 5 to bottom 5. Ravens are behind teams like Indy, KC and even Cleveland. Do they have better talent than the Ravens? I think not. I would be commending Pees if he had this unit in the top 10. I would be understanding if he had this unit in the top 15. But to be at the bottom is on the coach. This team is poorly coached on both sides of the ball and nothing illustrates that more than the fact that they are one of the most penalized teams.

**DonNMass** · 11-05-2012, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I disagree.

Losing Redding and JJ is a big deal, no doubt, but a majority of this defense was here last year and almost every current starter was a starter last year and/or played a significant amount.

Pees just isn't using the guys like Pags did. Plain and simple.

Case and point: The secondary. What looked like a strong press-man unit last year has quickly turned into a unit that gives up 8-10 yards a pop because the corners are playing so far off the receiver.

I thought the D stepped up nicely in the 2nd half yesterday, but it was also against the Browns and a QB who refused to throw it to his 1st read almost every snap. I don't know if you guys caught any of the commentary or not, but they were flipping out regarding how Brandon Weeden was literally passing over guys like Massequoi and Watson who were uncovered underneath on SEVERAL plays. If the Browns had a QB who could spread it around effectively, that likely would have been a very different game.

On the plus side, I will say that Jimmy Smith did a nice job on Massequoi and Greg Little because those guys didn't even register a reception IIRC. They pretty much picked on Cary Williams.

Frankly, I agree with Smoove on this one. The 28th ranked defense is nothing to be pleased about and a lot of it is because of Pees.

Shouldn't be a slight to Pees to note that he's bringing to the Ravens exactly what his track record and NE style defense advertised prior to his hire. The real questrion is why the Ravens would want his style of D coaching. He's just being the same Pees we knew he was and somehow to expect somethng else is confusing.

**DrUnk** · 11-05-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

Shouldn't be a slight to Pees to note that he's bringing to the Ravens exactly what his track record and NE style defense advertised prior to his hire. The real questrion is why the Ravens would want his style of D coaching. He's just being the same Pees we knew he was and somehow to expect somethng else is confusing.

Exactly right.