Dean Pees -- Props or Blame?

**rastaman831226** · 11-15-2012, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ravens44

And I think this is part of what we are seeing on both sides.
It is about scheme. It is about play design on both sides of the ball.
Rex believed that when you bring pressure, you first disguise what you are doing, so the offensive line calls the wrong blocking assignments...then you overload a specific area with more rushers than blockers, bring 4 against 3 blockers.
For an offensive line, either an offside linemen wheels and runs over to the opposite side to help block in less than 3 seconds or the QB has to hurry the throw.
And this helps on the back end by making QBs throw before their receivers are even aware the ball is already headed their way or the throw is off the mark, leading to many incompletes and some turnovers.
Do the most with what you have. Create mismatches, either with talent or by sheer numbers.
And stunts should be included in there.
Teams are doing it against us and it is working.
LEARN and ADAPT!

And least someone noticed since our pressure isn't getting there enough, lets jump up and bat some balls away.
As much as Pees is bothering me too, he is trying to adapt.
He has the defense doing more things and he moved upstairs to see what is ACTUALLY happening with his own eyes.
MAYBE he is learning. The time to really perform/adapt is coming up on Sunday.

Learn and adapt? Sounds more like a day late a dollar short. Pees in no rookie DC, he's been around the barn plus a year under Pagano. Was this guy asleep during game planning? The key to Ravens successful D ball has always been naked aggression yields good results. If we wanted to see bend but don't break, we should have retained Gregg Mattison. Pees' moving upstairs means nothing other than he gets a better view of his soft schemes.

**rastaman831226** · 11-15-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

You do realize that most HC's hire guys they've coached with before or have some connection to, right?

And, what does Harbaugh's family have to do with it?

So that makes It all right to hire a coach with a " soft " reputation AOK because of a previous relationship with that coach and not because of his competence................?

**NOLARavenFAN** · 11-19-2012, 08:34 PM

When I first started this post it read "Props to Dean Pees" not "Props or Blame?" maybe the mod who changed it on me should change it back?

**RavensQB** · 11-19-2012, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN

When I first started this post it read "Props to Dean Pees" not "Props or Blame?" maybe the mod who changed it on me should change it back?

You mean they changed YOUR OPINION?

**NOLARavenFAN** · 11-19-2012, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by RavensQB

You mean they changed YOUR OPINION?

Although my opinion was not changed it made it seem like I was asking a question when I was stating a fact. It was a little over the top I thought....but I let it go.

**B-more Ravor** · 11-20-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by rastaman831226

So that makes It all right to hire a coach with a " soft " reputation AOK because of a previous relationship with that coach and not because of his competence................?

Hmm, didn't say that. You, derogatorially, said he was another "Harbaugh family plan hire". I was just asking what he had to do with Harbaugh's family and why having a previous association with the HC was considered a problem?!?!?!?

Also, if you check Pees record as a DC, it's pretty good - despite what some NE fans may say - so he's certainly proven to be at least "competent". In fact, NE's D since he left has taken a total nose-dive.

**RavensDomination** · 11-21-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by bacchys

The criticism of Mattison then was idiotic, and it's not made better by age. Mattison had to contend with a weak secondary, and if we'd blitzed like the idiocracy of Baltimore fandom wanted, we would have given up 50+ points per game. We had Frank Freakin' Walker and Fabian Freakin' Washington behind the pass rush. We still ended up with top 10 defenses.

While we thought the secondary was going to be a strength coming into the season, it hasn't been. Losing Webb has significantly weakened it. I don't know why we don't press more with Williams and Smith, but that might be because the coaches are seeing something in practice that we, the fans, don't. I rather suspect it is.

Yesterday a two-man rush got to Palmer in the red zone. Last year, that hated three-man rush created a sack and a hurry in the red zone against the Bengals that sealed the game. Blitzing creates weaknesses in the secondary. You can't blitz every down.

Last time I checked Domonique Foxworth played very well for the 2009 team. Chris Carr and Josh Wilson played CB for the 2010 team, and both played well. Fabian Washington wasn't a terrible cover corner. Frank Walker wasn't even on the team in 2010 and played a backup role in 2009. We still had a HOF named Ed Reed in the secondary as well. So yea, terrible secondary there. So terrible probably 28 other teams would have traded theirs for it.

The 3 man rush you mentioned in the Bengals game I remember, the RB missed his blocking assignment. Under Pagano we showed blitz a lot but then backed off. This was effective since we blitzed a lot and it kept teams guessing. We don't do anything on defense now that has any offense guessing. There are no fancy blitz packages. The classic Ravens defense is on life support, until Rex gets fired and comes back (wishful thinking on my part).

**lobachevsky** · 11-21-2012, 10:24 AM

Has it struck anyone else that the D's improved play over the last couple of weeks coincides with Pees coaching from upstairs during the games? It may be that for him, being able to dial up personnel packages & defenses from a view of the whole field more than outweighs not being able to talk directly with the players while they're on the sidelines.

**NOLARavenFAN** · 11-21-2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Has it struck anyone else that the D's improved play over the last couple of weeks coincides with Pees coaching from upstairs during the games? It may be that for him, being able to dial up personnel packages & defenses from a view of the whole field more than outweighs not being able to talk directly with the players while they're on the sidelines.

Yes, I agree with that.....the players have to motivate themselves anyway.

**RavensDomination** · 11-21-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Has it struck anyone else that the D's improved play over the last couple of weeks coincides with Pees coaching from upstairs during the games? It may be that for him, being able to dial up personnel packages & defenses from a view of the whole field more than outweighs not being able to talk directly with the players while they're on the sidelines.

I noticed after the bye week more aggressiveness. We blitzed in the first quarter against Cleveland, something we rarely if ever did during the first half of the season. But I agree Pees being up top has seemed to coincide with an overall improvement.

**lobachevsky** · 11-21-2012, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN

Yes, I agree with that.....the players have to motivate themselves anyway.

I don't think it's the ability to motivate that's lost (how much there is to be lost is arguable--Pees is their granpas' age) so much as being able to hear directly from the players what they see happening & what they think they can do in response. With Pees upstairs that probably ends up filtered through the position coaches on the sidelines.

Now watch there be an "accidental" communications malfunction at Qualcomm Sunday afternoon....

**B-more Ravor** · 11-21-2012, 01:25 PM

I think it also has a lot to do with Suggs return too.

They weren't blitzing much earlier, but they weren't getting to the QB, even with blitzes, so they decided to try and play more cover defense. Now, with Suggs back, I think they feel that they can be more aggressive and because teams have to account for Suggs - which they didn't with anyone else when Suggs wasn't play - it allows the blitzes to be a little more successful too.

Kruger, as your primary rusher, isn't going to do much. Kruger, with Suggs drawing the attention, can/will be a much more successful pass rusher.

Now, if we can get McPhee back up to speed and healthy.....

**AirFlacco** · 11-21-2012, 01:47 PM

He gets kudos from me for beating the Squeelers and last couplle of games the D has come on strong.
Oz signs Johnson who makes a huge play in his first game, Reed gets big INT and there's no way you
can blame him.

And he had Ray out and Suggs not so strong. His D went after them like their D went after us and
he was the last man standing with a big smile of his face.

Great move by HARBS sending him upstairs.

**scrock** · 11-21-2012, 01:48 PM

He's doing the best with a very bad situation. Not only were some young guys going to have to step up because of free agents leaving but some were forced into action by injuries. The defense has shown signs of improving the last few weeks. I'm not sure Dean Pees is the problem

**Ravens44** · 11-21-2012, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Has it struck anyone else that the D's improved play over the last couple of weeks coincides with Pees coaching from upstairs during the games? It may be that for him, being able to dial up personnel packages & defenses from a view of the whole field more than outweighs not being able to talk directly with the players while they're on the sidelines.

That's kind of what I said at the top of this page.
It appears to me that Pees is trying to fix the problems and moving upstairs would help him see for himself what is going on. That IS important. The guy is trying to adapt, trying to change things that AREN'T working...as opposed to someone we know who took 4 years to figure out that Flacco performs well in the shotgun and the hurry up when EVERYONE who has watched the games over the last 4 years already knew that.

I am not sold on Pees, but at least the guy is trying to actively figure things out, not wait until the offseason to look at films and have an AHA moment every football fan already is fully aware of.

**AirFlacco** · 11-21-2012, 07:47 PM

We should have only 1 loss - Houston!

It wasn't the d-line that allowed a sack and the ball to be stripped at the same time in the beginning
of the game leading to a TD in Philly. That one play was the game breaker since we lost by 1 pt.

Now, the Houston game is a different story but he won all the others and should have won in Philly.

**lobachevsky** · 11-21-2012, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

We should have only 1 loss - Houston!

It wasn't the d-line that allowed a sack and the ball to be stripped at the same time in the beginning
of the game leading to a TD in Philly. That one play was the game breaker since we lost by 1 pt.

And it wasn't the d-line that stood there with the flags jammed in their pockets while the Philthy DBs mugged the Ravens receivers, but called a bogus OPI on Jacoby's shouldabeen-game-winning TD. That loss is 90% the fault of the Zombie Zeebs, Refplacements, Bozos in Stripes, call them what you will....

**srobert96** · 11-22-2012, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by bacchys

The criticism of Mattison then was idiotic, and it's not made better by age. Mattison had to contend with a weak secondary, and if we'd blitzed like the idiocracy of Baltimore fandom wanted, we would have given up 50+ points per game. We had Frank Freakin' Walker and Fabian Freakin' Washington behind the pass rush. We still ended up with top 10 defenses.

While we thought the secondary was going to be a strength coming into the season, it hasn't been. Losing Webb has significantly weakened it. I don't know why we don't press more with Williams and Smith, but that might be because the coaches are seeing something in practice that we, the fans, don't. I rather suspect it is.

Yesterday a two-man rush got to Palmer in the red zone. Last year, that hated three-man rush created a sack and a hurry in the red zone against the Bengals that sealed the game. Blitzing creates weaknesses in the secondary. You can't blitz every down.

The criticism was not idiotic then and is not now. He used a bend but don't break defense that killed the Ravens on Time of Possession. The defense was not all that young and wore down. There are other ways to hide a poor secondary. There are plenty of ways to disguise blitzes and get pressure without sending the house. Rushing 3 and giving the QB a ton of time puts just as much pressure if not more as rushing 4 or 5 and getting pressure. Having to cover receivers for a long period of time is difficult regardless of how many you drop in coverage.

**Captain Offense** · 11-22-2012, 07:10 AM

I am not a big fan of the "bend-but-don't-break" defense, but if it works, then it works. I do not need "organized chaos" to support a coach; if it was so successful, then this copy-cat league would be all over it x 32. My main focus is Third-Down efficiency and Red Zone Efficiency.

Some of the problem IMHO can be linked to the players' ability to do their job and the coaches expecting more from certain people than they can produce. In quite a few games, certain players were showing a blitz or shifts before the snap. If you tip your hand, any offense can adjust. Now is that the Coach saying "Move into position early" or is it a player trying to figure out the snap and moving when HE THINKS it is appropriate? I think it is the latter, and as the players get into the plays and the season progresses, they can move later and disguise the blitz better. Of course, the plays with Suggs in the mix has to make a difference. And I think that expecting Kruger to be more than a Pass Rush Specialist was a mistake. And banking on Cody and McPhee to step up and fill the void and/or for McBean to be a positive addition has come up empty.

The defense is making steps forward as the season picks up steam. I hope that the scheme starts to make a difference and the players continue to progress. The game I see as a real test? Denver. How the defense performs in that game will tell a lot to me.