Dean Pees -- Props or Blame?

**RavensDomination** · 11-10-2012, 10:41 AM

Those who don't want to blame Pees need to remember their Ravens history. Not too long ago we had a guy named Greg Mattison who was a lot like Pees. Vanilla, conservative. Remember that year, how our sacks plummeted, and the 3 man rush was our achilles heel? Pagano takes over, relatively the same team, and works wonders. A lot of players that offseason talked about going back to playing "Ravens football," a not so subtle jab at Mattison's conservative defense. Now here we are, Pagano has left, Pees takes over, 3 man rush is back. We are the only team in the league that didn't go after Vick. We are the only team in the league that doesn't try to pressure a rookie QB in a pressure situation (Weeden in the 1st Browns game at home). It's pathetic. Like Mattison, Pees needs to go.

**The Excellector** · 11-10-2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by RavensDomination

Those who don't want to blame Pees need to remember their Ravens history. Not too long ago we had a guy named Greg Mattison who was a lot like Pees. Vanilla, conservative. Remember that year, how our sacks plummeted, and the 3 man rush was our achilles heel? Pagano takes over, relatively the same team, and works wonders. A lot of players that offseason talked about going back to playing "Ravens football," a not so subtle jab at Mattison's conservative defense. Now here we are, Pagano has left, Pees takes over, 3 man rush is back. We are the only team in the league that didn't go after Vick. We are the only team in the league that doesn't try to pressure a rookie QB in a pressure situation (Weeden in the 1st Browns game at home). It's pathetic. Like Mattison, Pees needs to go.

There are several similarities and the one excuse that was used for both was lack of talent. Yet, in 2008, Rex made it work with McAlister on IR, Rolle hurt on and off, and the combo of Fabian Washington and Frank Walker in the secondary.

**DonNMass** · 11-11-2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

There are several similarities and the one excuse that was used for both was lack of talent. Yet, in 2008, Rex made it work with McAlister on IR, Rolle hurt on and off, and the combo of Fabian Washington and Frank Walker in the secondary.

Pees is just being Pees and bringing the NE defense to Baltimore, and apparently it's what Harbaugh wants; his hire.

What was the difference between Adalius Thomas one year removed from being a big-time D contributor here in Baltimore just to disappear in NE? I say it was coaching philosophy.

Harbaugh has shifted Raven's football philosophy and culture on both sides of the ball, and the jury is out on whether it works in the end, but the term "Ravens Football" has a different meaning now than just a few years ago when ball control and "smash mouth" ruled on the O and the D.

**Jsmoove** · 11-11-2012, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

Pees is just being Pees and bringing the NE defense to Baltimore, and apparently it's what Harbaugh wants; his hire.

What was the difference between Adalius Thomas one year removed from being a big-time D contributor here in Baltimore just to disappear in NE? I say it was coaching philosophy.

Harbaugh has shifted Raven's football philosophy and culture on both sides of the ball, and the jury is out on whether it works in the end, but the term "Ravens Football" has a different meaning now than just a few years ago when ball control and "smash mouth" ruled on the O and the D.

as much as i want to say you're wrong, i can't, this is not what we know as Baltimore football, this defense is not baltimore's defense and Harbaugh is and should be held accountable just as much as piss pees and killa cam those are "his" guys.

**leachisabeast** · 11-11-2012, 11:44 AM

Dean Pee's coaching philosophy is a terrible fit for our defense that is filled with veterans that have historically been very aggressive players, and it's also not the type of philosophy that does our younger players any favors who need to be aggressive players to succeed in this league, they shouldn't be playing conservatively, which is what the likes of Jimmy Smith is doing.

Jimmy should be jamming receivers at the line and playing tight man to man coverage, because that's what he done so well in college, his size fits that style of play being 6'2, and that's just simply what his strength is! He needs to put players into better positions so that they can be productive, there may be some mistakes here and there with some big plays given up, but that's a lot better than giving me a heart attack watching us slowly and painfully leak yards after yards.

It is clear to me that this defense just isn't a good fit for conservative DC's, and it's actually debatable if conservative DC's are even a good fit for the NFL in general, with the nature of the game today. The pattern is really quite clear to me.

We have Rex Ryan in 08, the defense plays lights out, and is very similar to what our defense was last year. Mattison then takes over, and through 09-2010, while we didn't give up many yards, we barely had any production in turnovers and sacks, it was sickening at times. We then promote Pagano, a DC much more similar to Rex Ryan, and our defense comes back from the dead and was the number 3 ranked D last season, the we go back to what we were a few years back with a typical NE conservative DC, infact it's taken a even bigger step back than 09-2010.

I would have rather seen Ted Monachino given a chance, a young aggressive minded players coach.

**Jsmoove** · 11-11-2012, 11:51 AM

Rex had fabian and frank walker looking like prime time and champ bailey..well maybe not so much but his schemes played to the strength of the unit, as one poster above pointed out when AD left and went to NE he was never the same. Our guys don't fit a conservative scheme. Ravens defense doesn't sit back and react to the play they get up to the line of scrimmage punch you in your mouth and make the offenses change what they are doing, we don't wait around. Its just horrible to see this defense ranking in the late 20s. Smh..pees is an asshole!

**The Excellector** · 11-11-2012, 11:53 AM

John Harbaugh's approach is to play it safe, when in doubt. I can't truly argue with the results. There weren't too many guys out there who were going to come in and coach up to the level of a Chuck Pagano. So, Harbaugh played it safe with Dean Pees. When they couldn't get the OC they wanted, they played it safe and kept Cameron. If somebody of consequence becomes available, rest assured that they will go after them.

**Ravenswintitle** · 11-11-2012, 01:32 PM

sounds like they made some adjustments and are using 4 man pressure.

**bacchys** · 11-12-2012, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by RavensDomination

Those who don't want to blame Pees need to remember their Ravens history. Not too long ago we had a guy named Greg Mattison who was a lot like Pees. Vanilla, conservative. Remember that year, how our sacks plummeted, and the 3 man rush was our achilles heel? Pagano takes over, relatively the same team, and works wonders. A lot of players that offseason talked about going back to playing "Ravens football," a not so subtle jab at Mattison's conservative defense. Now here we are, Pagano has left, Pees takes over, 3 man rush is back. We are the only team in the league that didn't go after Vick. We are the only team in the league that doesn't try to pressure a rookie QB in a pressure situation (Weeden in the 1st Browns game at home). It's pathetic. Like Mattison, Pees needs to go.

The criticism of Mattison then was idiotic, and it's not made better by age. Mattison had to contend with a weak secondary, and if we'd blitzed like the idiocracy of Baltimore fandom wanted, we would have given up 50+ points per game. We had Frank Freakin' Walker and Fabian Freakin' Washington behind the pass rush. We still ended up with top 10 defenses.

While we thought the secondary was going to be a strength coming into the season, it hasn't been. Losing Webb has significantly weakened it. I don't know why we don't press more with Williams and Smith, but that might be because the coaches are seeing something in practice that we, the fans, don't. I rather suspect it is.

Yesterday a two-man rush got to Palmer in the red zone. Last year, that hated three-man rush created a sack and a hurry in the red zone against the Bengals that sealed the game. Blitzing creates weaknesses in the secondary. You can't blitz every down.

**leachisabeast** · 11-12-2012, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by bacchys

The criticism of Mattison then was idiotic, and it's not made better by age. Mattison had to contend with a weak secondary, and if we'd blitzed like the idiocracy of Baltimore fandom wanted, we would have given up 50+ points per game. We had Frank Freakin' Walker and Fabian Freakin' Washington behind the pass rush. We still ended up with top 10 defenses.

While we thought the secondary was going to be a strength coming into the season, it hasn't been. Losing Webb has significantly weakened it. I don't know why we don't press more with Williams and Smith, but that might be because the coaches are seeing something in practice that we, the fans, don't. I rather suspect it is.

Yesterday a two-man rush got to Palmer in the red zone. Last year, that hated three-man rush created a sack and a hurry in the red zone against the Bengals that sealed the game. Blitzing creates weaknesses in the secondary. You can't blitz every down.

The only reason we were a top 10 defense that year was because our rush defense was so good, but our pass defense was ranked 20th or something like that.

**jaydee414** · 11-12-2012, 06:56 AM

....one more time.
Lack of a pass rush is at the heart of the Ravens defensive woes. It may be a tired cliche, but it really DOES all begin up front.
A defensive backfield of Night Train Lane, Prime Time, Ed Reed and Lester Hayes gets fried without pressure on the QB.

**bacchys** · 11-12-2012, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

The only reason we were a top 10 defense that year was because our rush defense was so good, but our pass defense was ranked 20th or something like that.

Sure. Would you rather run into Lewis and Ngata, or pass against Walker and Washington?

It's not a hard call to make.

**rastaman831226** · 11-12-2012, 08:06 PM

Just recently posted the question on N.E. ESPN forum whether personnel or coaching philosophy led to Pees' demise with the Patriots. The response was nearly unanimous- Pees' defenses were " soft " with predictable blitz packages with little attention paid to the fundamentals. Sound familiar? Another Harbaugh Family Plan hire.

**B-more Ravor** · 11-12-2012, 08:23 PM

You do realize that most HC's hire guys they've coached with before or have some connection to, right?

And, what does Harbaugh's family have to do with it?

**landspeed** · 11-12-2012, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

You do realize that most HC's hire guys they've coached with before or have some connection to, right?

And, what does Harbaugh's family have to do with it?

Because a lot of johns hires have been due to family history and not NFL history.

**B-more Ravor** · 11-12-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Because a lot of johns hires have been due to family history and not NFL history.

OK, and what does that have to do with Pees (who also does have a NFL history)?

**leachisabeast** · 11-12-2012, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

OK, and what does that have to do with Pees (who does have a NFL history)?

Lol, forget it, guys like "landspeed" are too convinced that Harbaugh is a terrible coach and makes the worse decisions in the league (while forgetting the record he's helped us get to while being here of course, but that doesn't count!). There is no winning with them.

**DonNMass** · 11-13-2012, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by rastaman831226

Just recently posted the question on N.E. ESPN forum whether personnel or coaching philosophy led to Pees' demise with the Patriots. The response was nearly unanimous- Pees' defenses were " soft " with predictable blitz packages with little attention paid to the fundamentals. Sound familiar? Another Harbaugh Family Plan hire.

I don't know if Pees is a Hardbaugh connection, and I don't follow any news about the Patriots at all so never heard of the guy before, but the Pat's fans I know were all happy as hell when the Raven's hired him as their DC for all of the reasons listed above.

As we learned from the contrast with Mattison and Pagano, all blitzes aren't created equal, as my brother said, our 83 year old mother can see the Raven's blitze's coming when she's shopping at Walmart in the food isle!

**leachisabeast** · 11-13-2012, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

I don't know if Pees is a Hardbaugh connection, and I don't follow any news about the Patriots at all so never heard of the guy before, but the Pat's fans I know were all happy as hell when the Raven's hired him as their DC for all of the reasons listed above.

As we learned from the contrast with Mattison and Pagano, all blitzes aren't created equal, as my brother said, our 83 year old mother can see the Raven's blitze's coming when she's shopping at Walmart in the food isle!

I've not even seen Pees dial up one stunt blitz all year, not one.

**Ravens44** · 11-13-2012, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I've not even seen Pees dial up one stunt blitz all year, not one.

And I think this is part of what we are seeing on both sides.
It is about scheme. It is about play design on both sides of the ball.
Rex believed that when you bring pressure, you first disguise what you are doing, so the offensive line calls the wrong blocking assignments...then you overload a specific area with more rushers than blockers, bring 4 against 3 blockers.
For an offensive line, either an offside linemen wheels and runs over to the opposite side to help block in less than 3 seconds or the QB has to hurry the throw.
And this helps on the back end by making QBs throw before their receivers are even aware the ball is already headed their way or the throw is off the mark, leading to many incompletes and some turnovers.
Do the most with what you have. Create mismatches, either with talent or by sheer numbers.
And stunts should be included in there.
Teams are doing it against us and it is working.
LEARN and ADAPT!

And least someone noticed since our pressure isn't getting there enough, lets jump up and bat some balls away.
As much as Pees is bothering me too, he is trying to adapt.
He has the defense doing more things and he moved upstairs to see what is ACTUALLY happening with his own eyes.
MAYBE he is learning. The time to really perform/adapt is coming up on Sunday.