Election Day 2012 Thread

**HoustonRaven** · 11-07-2012, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by dweezil22

Your numbers simply aren't true. Debt went up 6 trillion under George W Bush. Of that nearly 4 trillion was in his second, 4 year term. Debt went up 2.8 trillion under Obama during the greatest recession since the depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...es_public_debt

Wiki?!?! Really?!?!

Google "Federal Debt by President" and take a look at the CBS news article from March that comes up. Proves what I'm saying.

**NCRAVEN** · 11-07-2012, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by CptJesus

Nah we've played this game before. My facts don't match up with the hive mind here, so they don't count.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

It's more debt that held by the public that has gone up under Obama more than any other President.

**wickedsolo** · 11-07-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Wiki?!?! Really?!?!

Google "Federal Debt by President" and take a look at the CBS news article from March that comes up. Proves what I'm saying.

Whaaa....wiki isn't a reliable source?!

**JAB1985** · 11-07-2012, 12:35 PM

I dont think theres any question the debt has gone up, however i think there are circumstances to why that happened out of his control. Sure he could have done a few things differently here and there but a lot of that is party lines which most Conservatives wont agree with whether it worked or not. always at least two ways to do anything, imo.

Although our debt went up so has our gross domestic product. Since the growth of our debt has slowed (since the huge spike at the end of Bush/beginning of Obama, aka the recession) maybe we can now start working towards lowering that % and paying it back so its more comparable to other presidents terms. keep in mind since 1976 (at least) no president besides Clinton has even had the debt decrease, which is what happens when you ignore it. at least now were committed as a country to pay it off. Whether Obamas plan works or not is still to be seen.

http://www.skymachines.com/US-Nation...ental-Term.htm

**NCRAVEN** · 11-07-2012, 12:45 PM

Our GDP is up??? Since when?

**JAB1985** · 11-07-2012, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Our GDP is up??? Since when?

Since the collapse at least, or generally since forever.

http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...hl=en&q=us+gdp

my point is as we continue to bring in more and more and the debt slowing like it is, theoretically well eventually be able to start paying it off again. Assuming things continue to track the way they are.

**jonboy79** · 11-07-2012, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Since the collapse at least, or generally since forever.

http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...hl=en&q=us+gdp

my point is as we continue to bring in more and more and the debt slowing like it is, theoretically well eventually be able to start paying it off again. Assuming things continue to track the way they are.

as long as spending is cut as well, you are correct.

ince Obama loves his presidential decress so much(more so then all other presidents combined) why not impose a major one on Congress... one I would agree with.

COngress shall not recess, nor receive a penny of federal taxpayer money(supplies or paychecks) until a balanced budget has been produced and agreed upon, signed into law.

I mean really, these guys need to be shut in a room wihtout anything until they can do the same simple thing that people around the country do every month.... balance their checkbook.

Would certainly put the service back in Public Service. And there is no way congress would ever agree to such a measure, so might as well use his dictatorial powers, errr ummm.... ya

**JAB1985** · 11-07-2012, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

as long as spending is cut as well, you are correct.

ince Obama loves his presidential decress so much(more so then all other presidents combined) why not impose a major one on Congress... one I would agree with.

COngress shall not recess, nor receive a penny of federal taxpayer money(supplies or paychecks) until a balanced budget has been produced and agreed upon, signed into law.

I mean really, these guys need to be shut in a room wihtout anything until they can do the same simple thing that people around the country do every month.... balance their checkbook.

Would certainly put the service back in Public Service. And there is no way congress would ever agree to such a measure, so might as well use his dictatorial powers, errr ummm.... ya

i whole heartedly agree. I also wouldnt mind pay cuts for them in general. or even better their pay being based on the average salaries of the ones theyre suppose to be representing. Really make them work for the people like theyre suppose to be.

**NCRAVEN** · 11-07-2012, 01:16 PM

This is more accurate.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/econom...statistics.htm

**HoustonRaven** · 11-07-2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Whaaa....wiki isn't a reliable source?!

Sorry if that's a Santa like bombshell.

**JAB1985** · 11-07-2012, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

This is more accurate.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/econom...statistics.htm

A healthy 2% last quarter... Im not seeing anything that says our GDP is down. Again, theres ebs and flows to how much or how little but its continually growing.

**NCRAVEN** · 11-07-2012, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

A healthy 2% last quarter... Im not seeing anything that says our GDP is down. Again, theres ebs and flows to how much or how little but its continually growing.

2% is not healthy, at all. 4+% is where it needs to be. 2 is barely keeping your head above water.

**jonboy79** · 11-07-2012, 03:10 PM

is that inflation adjusted? And by inflation adjusted I DO NOT mean using hte current governmental defined inflation figure, but one that is based on reality. If not, 2% isn't even keeping up with real world inflation.

**StingerNLG** · 11-07-2012, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

I dont think theres any question the debt has gone up, however i think there are circumstances to why that happened out of his control. Sure he could have done a few things differently here and there but a lot of that is party lines which most Conservatives wont agree with whether it worked or not. always at least two ways to do anything, imo.

One problem with this. Democrats held both the House and Senate for Obama's first two years. The media was able to fool half the country that Conservatives have been holding him up since the day he got into office, when he had a supermajority in the Senate and overwhelming control of the House.

The reason the House flipped in 2010 is because people wanted to stop what was going on. It's also why they kept the house now. A buffer to hopefully keep Obama from finishing off what he started.

**StingerNLG** · 11-07-2012, 06:32 PM

Also, HR man you were dead on about the whole damn thing. I thought the debates were enough when they swung the polls in Romney's direction. But you were absolutely right that Romney should have fought back long before the convention. He allowed the Democrats, Obama, and the lapdog media to define him through complete lies and demagoguery.

The Republican party on the whole also never got behind him. Republican leadership in the House and Senate hardly uttered a word of support for Romney. Ohio Gov. Kasich should have been all over the media airwaves pushing Ohio for him. And during Hurricane Sandy while everyone was focused on Chris Christie getting used by Obama for nothing but a Presidental-looking photo op, the Republicans were silent.

And then the polls. Rasmussen was so wrong on Party ID, and you were right about the state polls. The electorate was exactly what it was in 2008, and it looks like 2010 was just an anomaly.

So, I'm man enough to admit I had this all wrong. In my heart, I thought high unemployment, high gas prices, debt and credit downgrades, and everything that happened in Libya and Syria would be enough to move the country back to the right. But the welfare state won. Obamaphones won. Vaginas over jobs won (and I know someone who actually told me they knew they would be financially worse off in 4 years and didn't care). The "give me free stuff" crowd won.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-07-2012, 06:42 PM

I take zero pride in being right but kudos to you for owning it. I could tell you we're invested in this more than some folks.

Takes balls, my friend.

**AirFlacco** · 11-07-2012, 06:46 PM

I love the quote that conservatives can stop pretending they like Romney.

**JAB1985** · 11-08-2012, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

One problem with this. Democrats held both the House and Senate for Obama's first two years. The media was able to fool half the country that Conservatives have been holding him up since the day he got into office, when he had a supermajority in the Senate and overwhelming control of the House.

The reason the House flipped in 2010 is because people wanted to stop what was going on. It's also why they kept the house now. A buffer to hopefully keep Obama from finishing off what he started.

the effects were stopped and started turning around by that point. the reason they lost control wasnt so much that people wanted to stop what was going on, but young, minority and women voters didnt show up like they did for the presidential one.

Ill go as far to say that it likely happens again and mid terms.

**JAB1985** · 11-08-2012, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

2% is not healthy, at all. 4+% is where it needs to be. 2 is barely keeping your head above water.

The ideal growth rate is between 2-3%. This is fast enough to provide enough jobs but not so fast it will create inflation.

you can put your own spin on it, but if youre going to quote a source you cant discredit it at the same time. bottom line is GDP is growing, all 3 sources say that.

**NCRAVEN** · 11-08-2012, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

you can put your own spin on it, but if youre going to quote a source you cant discredit it at the same time. bottom line is GDP is growing, all 3 sources say that.

The source was to show the rate of "growth" since it linked to the reports. Read what Jonboy said after my post, it's spot on.