Offense Rankings since Joe/Cam have been here

**redmike34** · 11-06-2012, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

While you're correct that points matter more than yards, just using the total points and ppg as a measuring stick is misleading as well because it doesn't account for ST's points and defensive points.

While that is true, over five years that will normalize out, because it's a fairly safe assumption that no one team has a monopoly on defensive/special teams TDs for five years straight.

So far for this year, the top ten teams in offensive yardage are a combined 43-38, while the top ten scoring teams are 54-29. While neither shows particularly great correlation to victory, it's fair to say that scoring is the better of the two, and I doubt that would significantly change comparing other years.

**LC_Ravens_87** · 11-06-2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by redmike34

So far for this year, the top ten teams in offensive yardage are a combined 43-38, while the top ten scoring teams are 54-29. While neither shows particularly great correlation to victory, it's fair to say that scoring is the better of the two, and I doubt that would significantly change comparing other years.

Don't think anyone is saying that PPG is misleading in terms of who is going to win. Obviously, if you score more points than everyone else, your odds of winning are good; whether it's w/ offense, defense, and/or special teams.

But I think what some are saying is that PPG by itself is misleading in measuring Offensive Output specifically, and in this case, Cam Cameron's performance individually.

**Coastergenius** · 11-09-2012, 08:34 AM

I'd say that you'd have to be concerned that a coordinator has been with the same team for 5 seasons, and nobody's interviewed him to be their head coach yet.

**alienrace** · 11-09-2012, 08:53 AM

Total yardage rankings are always very misleading.

Too many teams are racking up big numbers in garbage time, and skewing the whole thing.

**LukeDaniel** · 11-09-2012, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by MarkS

Yea, but you win games with points, not yards. So in the stat that matters more:

2008 - 11th 24.1 ppg
2009 - 9th 24.4 ppg
2010 - 16th 22.3 ppg
2011 - 12th 23.6 ppg
2012 - 11th 24.9 ppg

Top 10 numbers? No. Consistently better than the league average? Yep.

Much of the anti-Cam hysteria, as well as much of the "Ravens = great defense/bad offense" perception, both locally and nationally, is simply ill-informed.

I'll give you one example: Anyone think the Steelers have a bad/sub-par offense? Probably not. and yet, in the 4 1/2 seasons since Flacco/Rice/Harbaugh/Cam arrived in town, the Ravens have actually scored MORE points than Roethlisberger's Steelers. And not just by one or two, by over 100 points (1710 to 1606).

My point is not that Cam is great, or the offense is great, but that both are significantly better than most Ravens fans realize.

Beautifully put.

**darthpemo** · 11-09-2012, 09:48 AM

Time of possession/drive efficiency are more important for us this year.

Three and outs are hugely negative for our decimated defense.

**Captain Silver** · 11-09-2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by alienrace

So faithful that after 30 games he replaced him with Steve McNair.

I always point to this and it gets rug swept under. When Billick had good QB play, we were formidable. McNair had 1 good year here before his arm gave way to a team wide marred injury season, which translated into 'Billick' losing the team. I applaud Billick always taking the high road about coaches message getting stale, but I also think he was a victim of not having a better QB for most of his tenure here.

**leachisabeast** · 11-09-2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

I always point to this and it gets rug swept under. When Billick had good QB play, we were formidable. McNair had 1 good year here before his arm gave way to a team wide marred injury season, which translated into 'Billick' losing the team. I applaud Billick always taking the high road about coaches message getting stale, but I also think he was a victim of not having a better QB for most of his tenure here.

That was his fault though, he was the one who chose Boller, if he really wanted to get a good QB, he should have done a better job trying to get one, it wasn't like Ozzie was just choosing all the players for Billick to work with, Billick had a lot more say on what players he wanted, and probably a lot more say than what Harbaugh has right now. Billick was also he one who wanted Grbac after getting rid of Trent Diffler. Billicks time ran out with this team, plain and simple.

**Captain Silver** · 11-09-2012, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

That was his fault though, he was the one who chose Boller, if he really wanted to get a good QB, he should have done a better job trying to get one, it wasn't like Ozzie was just choosing all the players for Billick to work with, Billick had a lot more say on what players he wanted, and probably a lot more say than what Harbaugh has right now. Billick was also he one who wanted Grbac after getting rid of Trent Diffler. Billicks time ran out with this team, plain and simple.

That is all well and good, but who why did they get McNair then? Why not fire him after a 13-3 season? All the other QB shit gets flushed the minute the man had a legit QB in McNair.

**Ravenswintitle** · 11-09-2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

That was his fault though, he was the one who chose Boller, if he really wanted to get a good QB, he should have done a better job trying to get one, it wasn't like Ozzie was just choosing all the players for Billick to work with, Billick had a lot more say on what players he wanted, and probably a lot more say than what Harbaugh has right now. Billick was also he one who wanted Grbac after getting rid of Trent Diffler. Billicks time ran out with this team, plain and simple.

They wanted Leftwich and when that didn't pan out they picked Boller. It was Oz making the pick although I am sure everyone was consulted.
At the time it made sense to try and upgrade from Dilfer also but when Jamal Lewis got hurt before the season, they just couldn't overcome it

**alienrace** · 11-09-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

They wanted Leftwich and when that didn't pan out they picked Boller. It was Oz making the pick although I am sure everyone was consulted.
At the time it made sense to try and upgrade from Dilfer also but when Jamal Lewis got hurt before the season, they just couldn't overcome it

I don't know why so many people forget that we wanted Leftwich, not that he was much better. Were they just not around for this?

And Grbac was an upgrade from Dilfer on paper. I doubt they'd have made the playoffs with Dilfer after Jamal went down.

**goodandfast** · 11-09-2012, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by alienrace

I don't know why so many people forget that we wanted Leftwich, not that he was much better. Were they just not around for this?

And Grbac was an upgrade from Dilfer on paper. I doubt they'd have made the playoffs with Dilfer after Jamal went down.

And who knows what the offense with Grbac and a healthy Jamal Lewis would have looked like.

**ravensnhokies** · 11-09-2012, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

That was his fault though, he was the one who chose Boller, if he really wanted to get a good QB, he should have done a better job trying to get one, it wasn't like Ozzie was just choosing all the players for Billick to work with, Billick had a lot more say on what players he wanted, and probably a lot more say than what Harbaugh has right now. Billick was also he one who wanted Grbac after getting rid of Trent Diffler. Billicks time ran out with this team, plain and simple.

After 2000, Billick really wanted Brad Johnson since he was familiar with him when he was with the Vikes. Once Brad signed with the Bucs, he went into anybody but Dilfer mode, and Grbac was the best QB on market. Grbac wasnt Billick's guy.

Yes Boller was Billick's guy, but Oz liked him too. This has always been underplayed in Raven's lore. Oz knew that the Ravens needed a QB after Jeff Blake nixed Brian's pleas to come back for an inexpensive contract. Oz was a big Leftwich guy, did not like Grossman, but he did think Boller was attractive with his Brian Sipe like arm strength. If you honestly think that Oz was opposed to Boller, than he simply wouldnt have been drafted. Oz, while influenced by BB's opinion, made the final decision on who to draft.

I will agree that BB's message was getting stale and needed to go. Hey Harbs could be getting into that territory in a year or two from now unless they win the SB.