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  1. #13
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    Galen, though I don't blame you, as it is the illness of modern thought in academia (which you are no doubt a product of), I'm afraid you mistake truth with mere fact. I seek truth, you seek fact. So while you and your liberal cohorts arguments may be brilliant in composition, they are so within a narrow scope; as when pushed in the direction of first principles (where inextricably truth lies) they crumble like a house of cards for want of basic relevance.

    Plato recognized that all intellectual inquiry must reflect whether it is moving towards or away from first principles. The result of moving away is mere facts without reference, as knowledge never lies on the periphery. In the Phaedrus Plato remarks:

    "They will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome, having the reputation of knowledge without the reality."

    I can't help but feel your cause was in Plato's mind when he wrote:

    "The excessive love of self is in reality the source of all offenses; for the lover is blinded by the beloved, so that he judges wrongly of the just, the good, and the honorable, and thinks that he ought always prefer his own interest to the truth."

    What devastating outcome could possibly follow when mindset of "own interest" is shared by the masses? Liberalism will reveal this in the times to come.
    Last edited by Sirdowski; 11-24-2012 at 03:13 PM.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  2. #14
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    Re: Things we empirically know, for sure and with absolute certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Galen, though I don't blame you, as it is the illness of modern thought in academia (which you are no doubt a product of), I'm afraid you mistake truth with mere fact. I seek truth, you seek fact. So while you and your liberal cohorts arguments may be brilliant in composition, they are so within a narrow scope; as when pushed in the direction of first principles (where inextricably truth lies) they crumble like a house of cards for want of basic relevance.
    Quite the flamboyant argument. I am not sure your arcane approach is working for this particular OP though. I was simply pointing out that the infinite nature of the back and forth arguments on this board do reach finite conclusions. These conclusions should be acknowledged in order to promote a wider participation in realistic thought - especially when it comes to politics.

    A.C.A. is constitutional in relationship to how our nations determines constitutionality. To continue to frame it as unconstitutional from this point forward is irrational.

    Investigations into Fast and Furious were a giant waste of national resources in an futile exercise in partisan politics. By refusing to acknowledge this, Fox News continues to waste American neurotransmitter potential on Susan Rice's role in Benghazi.

    My favorite Thing we empirically know, for sure and with absolute certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt is by far though, the pre-electoral polling. You can complain about the "illness of modern thought in academia" but Nate Silver, representing "academic thought", delivered a clear and absolute smack-down of non-academic thought represented by the Dick Morris' of the world as well as our local posters right here at 24x7 who relied on nothing more than emotional masturbation to follow Morris into, to reference your hero, Plato's Cave. Academic experience gave the majority of pollsters and Nate Silver the intellectual tools necessary to predict a future absolute reality. Joke academia all you want and while it might not predict the outcomes of love, yet (see Gottman et al.)...it did predict a political opinion drawn from a wide assortment of demographic variables almost perfectly.
    This was a huge win for Academia.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Plato recognized that all intellectual inquiry must reflect whether it is moving towards or away from first principles. The result of moving away is mere facts without reference, as knowledge never lies on the periphery. In the Phaedrus Plato remarks:

    "They will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome, having the reputation of knowledge without the reality."

    I can't help but feel your cause was in Plato's mind when he wrote:

    "The excessive love of self is in reality the source of all offenses; for the lover is blinded by the beloved, so that he judges wrongly of the just, the good, and the honorable, and thinks that he ought always prefer his own interest to the truth."

    What devastating outcome could possibly follow when mindset of "own interest" is shared by the masses? Liberalism will reveal this in the times to come.
    In commenting on your flamboyance, I have always been more in the school of Aristotle than Plato. I am sure that comes as no surprise to you.

    The argument you make, and have made here in the past, is really nothing short of a romantic variation of attacking the messenger. If evolution threatens religion then attack the voice of evolution: science. If polling suggests the other candidate is winning then attack the voice of polling: methodology. If liberal cohorts arguments may be brilliant in composition then attack their voice: academia.


    You deny man's ability to know absolute reality yet you are determined to express your certainty of God. You can't have it both ways. Man's intuitive leap towards science is bunk, yet his intuition of God is certain?. Sorry if this is offensive but I can't but imagine you sitting around in your Wednesday night men's bible study group discussing ways to deny evolution as well as secularism. You deny the teachings of academia, yet you uphold the teachings of Wednesday's night bible study? You laugh and look down on he who sits at the desk of academia, yet you laud he who sits in the pew of the cloth. In their essence, they are same. In only their experience, do they differ. By siding with Plato over Aristotle, you set your own intellectual trap right here. You can only unravel your trap through Aristotle but you then lose the strength of your premise about the essence of things. You just can't have it both ways.

    You degrade your own argument of the lover is blinded by the beloved by blindly loving your own form of beloved. You claim your beloved is absolute and apart from experience yet its essence, outside of faithful experience, is no different than the essence of mine found through academic experience.

    Intellectual relativism is a dead end street, as much in your world as mine.








  3. #15
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    Re: Things we empirically know, for sure and with absolute certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Why bold for the entire retort?




  4. #16

    Re: Things we empirically know, for sure and with absolute certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Why bold for the entire retort?
    because he is JUST THAT IMPORTANT, didn't ya know? Oh wait he's the only one living in his world...




  5. #17
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    Re: Things we empirically know, for sure and with absolute certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    The argument you make, and have made here in the past, is really nothing short of a romantic variation of attacking the messenger.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Houston, TX Y'all
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    Re: Things we empirically know, for sure and with absolute certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    I wonder if "Galen's" patients know about his odd side proclivities of coming on to message boards with this nonsense?

    Doctor ... err ... therapist, heal thy self.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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