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  1. #1

    The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.



    You can really connect the dots, when it comes to how the Ravens front office has approached this idea of developing the offense. First, you can look at how high on their list Cam Cameron was as an OC. Brian Billick was defiinitely considering bringing him in. Even though Brian Billick was not retained, Cam Cameron was still brought in.

    Now, when you look at the way his offenses have performed here in Baltimore, there is a connection to be made, to how his offenses performed in San Diego. You had an offense centered around LaDanian Tomlinson. You had a QB who was not always allowed to sling it, even though he flashed great potential. The one difference that you saw is that Ed Dickson has not become the guy he was expected to be, a guy who could play that Antonio Gates role.

    Eventually, the Coryell was successful, in large part, due to Vincent Jackson, a guy who could use his size to force separation is close quarters.

    More to the point, the same criticisms that Cam Cameron faces here, are criticisms that he faced in San Diego, under Marty Schottenheimer, who is well known for his 'Martyball' approach.

    Schottenheimer was also known for his stubborn nature and was far from a player friendly coach.

    Well, if you can remember a guy who was high on the Ravens list of head coaching candidates, you might remember that Marty Schottenheimer was that guy.

    You can really connect the dots with how the Ravens front office felt about the offense, that they just needed the defense to get healthy again and they could use the same strategy of old to get to a Super Bowl.

    After trying it and being defeated in the playoffs year after year, they finally decided to change their approach. However, they still seem nervous about the full commitment. They've at least got to a point where they are comfortable letting the offense rip at home. However, they still get into these modes where that old mentality comes out, much like last week.

    If this year won't teach them anything else, it will teach them that they need to be more aggressive in developing this offense, because the defense is no longer a certainty.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  2. #2

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Eventually, the Coryell was successful, in large part, due to Vincent Jackson, a guy who could use his size to force separation is close quarters.
    Cam didn't benefit significantly from having VJax.
    Cam was the Chargers OC from 2002-2006.
    VJax was a rookie in 2005 who only caught a few passes for 0 TD.
    In 2006, Cam's last season there, VJax was more productive: about 30 catches for 450 yds with 6 TD.

    When Cam was there, the Chargers best WRs were Eric Parker and an old Keenan McCardell.

    Gates & Tomlinson were 75% of their offense.

    You are right that VJax did blossom in the Air Coryell, but that was under Norv.




  3. #3
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    The reason they are not fully committed to it is because they don't want games like Houston to occur too often. There is trying to develop the passing offense, and there's throwing games away.




  4. #4

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Here we go.

    If you can't get through a brick wall by banging your head into it, just keep doing it, you're bound to get through.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  5. #5
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Here we go.

    If you can't get through a brick wall by banging your head into it, just keep doing it, you're bound to get through.
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  6. #6

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    Cam didn't benefit significantly from having VJax.
    Cam was the Chargers OC from 2002-2006.
    VJax was a rookie in 2005 who only caught a few passes for 0 TD.
    In 2006, Cam's last season there, VJax was more productive: about 30 catches for 450 yds with 6 TD.

    When Cam was there, the Chargers best WRs were Eric Parker and an old Keenan McCardell.

    Gates & Tomlinson were 75% of their offense.

    You are right that VJax did blossom in the Air Coryell, but that was under Norv.
    That's what I meant. I should have clarified. There's been an ongoing debate around here about the Coryell and I just wanted to add that in there to show that it can be effective.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #7

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    My main point is that there was never a truly aggressive approach to develop the offense and that this approach is now hurting the team when it matters most, in the playoffs. Steve Bisciotti got his stability, but may have also got his plateau.

    It can't possibly be an indictment of Joe Flacco, who has already made the throw to clinch the sweep of the Steelers, and the throw that would have sent the Ravens to the Super Bowl, both on the road in the same season, that we expect another OC to come in here and see the offense ascend to a new level. Whether that person is Norv Turner or even Jim Caldwell.

    You didn't see any Marvin Harrison drafted for him. You didn't see any Santonio Holmes' drafted. You didn't see Donald Driver and Greg Jennings waiting for him. You essentially just saw Driver (Mason). It took them four years to draft Torrey Smith. They did make some trades, but look at how many years it took them to really start focusing on fits for the system.
    Last edited by The Excellector; 11-08-2012 at 07:29 AM.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #8
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    My main point is that there was never a truly aggressive approach to develop the offense and that this approach is now hurting the team when it matters most, in the playoffs. Steve Bisciotti got his stability, but may have also got his plateau.

    It can't possibly be an indictment of Joe Flacco, who has already made the throw to clinch the sweep of the Steelers, and the throw that would have sent the Ravens to the Super Bowl, both on the road in the same season, that we expect another OC to come in here and see the offense ascend to a new level. Whether that person is Norv Turner or even Jim Caldwell.

    You didn't see any Marvin Harrison drafted with him. You didn't see any Santonio Holmes' drafted. You didn't see Donald Driver and Greg Jennings waiting for him. You essentially just saw Driver (Mason). It took them four years to draft Torrey Smith. They did make some trades, but look at how many years it took them to really start focusing on fits for the system.
    I see where your coming from, but those guys cost money. You could have either surrounded Flacco with weapons, but would have missed out on signing guys like Ngata and Suggs, and the defense would have sucked, it's one or the other, Flacco has never had what Matt Ryan has had in Atlanta, but he's had a great defense up until this year.

    It's all very well saying that Flacco would have had a better statistical career to this point, but I doubt he would have had the wins under his belt had we let the defense go soft, and wins are more important than nice stats.




  9. #9

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I see where your coming from, but those guys cost money. You could have either surrounded Flacco with weapons, but would have missed out on signing guys like Ngata and Suggs, and the defense would have sucked, it's one or the other, Flacco has never had what Matt Ryan has had in Atlanta, but he's had a great defense up until this year.

    It's all very well saying that Flacco would have had a better statistical career to this point, but I doubt he would have had the wins under his belt had we let the defense go soft, and wins are more important than nice stats.
    Now, the defense sucks anyway. I'm not saying that it was a bad idea to sign Suggs and Ngata, but it makes you question how much has to take place before they change their approach.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #10

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    That's what I meant. I should have clarified. There's been an ongoing debate around here about the Coryell and I just wanted to add that in there to show that it can be effective.
    And this might be part of the reason why Cam had more success in San Diego--and had a more consistent offense.
    Because the Ravens don't have that elite tight end--Dickson might have the talent but so far, he's proven too unreliable, dropping too many passes.
    And it may be that Cam doesn't trust Rice as much as he did Tomlinson, because Tomlinson was both better in pass protection and more of a power runner since he was considerably bigger and stronger than Rice.

    And I think we have enough evidence that while Cam is capable of doing things differently from how he normally does them, he doesn't like being taken out of his comfort zone for long and will often/quickly revert to how he has always done them.
    He's just not amenable to long-lasting changes.

    So, it could be that Cam needs that elite TE and that all-around elite RB--because that's what his preferred offense requires--neither of which the Ravens don't quite have, because Cam just can't stick with whatever adjustments he makes to compensate for very long.

    And didn't the Chargers have a better O-Line than the Ravens back then? I can't remember now for sure, but I think they did. If so, then that's another key reason why Cam had more success in SD than he has had here.




  11. #11
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    And this might be part of the reason why Cam had more success in San Diego--and had a more consistent offense.
    Because the Ravens don't have that elite tight end--Dickson might have the talent but so far, he's proven too unreliable, dropping too many passes.
    And it may be that Cam doesn't trust Rice as much as he did Tomlinson, because Tomlinson was both better in pass protection and more of a power runner since he was considerably bigger and stronger than Rice.

    And I think we have enough evidence that while Cam is capable of doing things differently from how he normally does them, he doesn't like being taken out of his comfort zone for long and will often/quickly revert to how he has always done them.
    He's just not amenable to long-lasting changes.

    So, it could be that Cam needs that elite TE and that all-around elite RB--because that's what his preferred offense requires--neither of which the Ravens don't quite have, because Cam just can't stick with whatever adjustments he makes to compensate for very long.

    And didn't the Chargers have a better O-Line than the Ravens back then? I can't remember now for sure, but I think they did. If so, then that's another key reason why Cam had more success in SD than he has had here.
    What? Your absolutely crazy to suggest replacing RB's when Rice just got paid big time, Rice is an elite back and not many people disagree with that, he may not be quite what Tomlinson was but he is more than good enough with Pierce supporting him too, running behind the best FB in football to boot. The Chargers may have had an elite TE and a better Olie, but we have much better receivers than what Cam had and it's not even close.




  12. #12

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    I never said Rice should be replaced.
    I just pointed out how he doesn't fit Cam's offense as perfectly as Tomlinson did.

    If anything, I'm suggesting that Cam needs to adjust the offense to better suit Rice's talents*** and stick with those adjustments rather than reverting back to how Cam prefers to do things (Cam's comfort zone).

    ***like for instance, running Rice to the outside more often and not sending him straight up the middle all the time. Also using Rice as an extra receiver, instead of relying on him to pass-block--you can use him to chip block, but with Vonta on this team, he should be the primary pass blocking back, which means he needs to be on the field more often too.

    Speaking of Vonta, how is Flacco supposed to feel comfortable audibling to a run when a pass play is called if the best FB in the league is on the sideline?




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