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  1. #37

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.



    Joe or Cammie?
    Which one is the problem?

    How does a mechanic or engineer do it? I think it's a process of isolation and elimination.

    For the Ravens, we won't ever be able to tell until they are separated...and since we absolutely know (from Stevie's sound bites over the last year or two) that Flacco isn't going anywhere, you gotta remove Cammie from the equation. If not then you are a hopeful fool (I don't think that's Stevie), or you are running with the assumption that with Joe and Cammie together, we can win it all. But that assumption has only become more foolish over time, because there's that annoying and constant element of life called reality.

    And our reality includes our recent history of failing to execute in the playoffs. Yet, even using that history as an excuse to keep Joe and Cammie together works, but it only really works in a world where players never age, never retire, never sign elsewhere, and never hit the IR.





  2. #38
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Can you really win a championship with guys like Cutler and Schaubb and Flacco? Sounds good in theory but I keep seeing those elite guys hoist the trophy. It's become a QB league and I'm not sure a 'good' QB can win it all
    I think you certainly can. Eli Manning won his first SB when he was playing at arguably a below average level, while his team around him was very talented and could make up for it. Same for Bens first SB, the Steelers where also a power run based team that were very talented on defense. You can even go back and look at the likes of Tampa Bay and even us with Trent Difler. Chicago also made the SB with Rex Grossman as their starting QB. Houston and Chicacgo are IMO currently the best teams in the league and are most likely at this point to meet in the SB, and look at who their starting QB's are, certainly a lot better than Rex Grossman and Trent Difler, and a notch above what Ben and Eli were in their first SB wins, but not really top 5 guys.
    Last edited by leachisabeast; 11-08-2012 at 12:54 PM.




  3. #39
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    Sooo it's Cam's fault that Joe has no sense of timing on three five or seven step drops?
    Joe was throwing timing patterns to Mason from day 1, no problem.
    It is really simple.
    If everytime you go to pass and EVERY ONE of your receivers are blanketed because the routes are basic and EVERY team KNOWS it...it is VERY DIFFICULT to succeed. This type of offensive strategy HAS put every Raven receiver at a disadvantage and the performance of the QB and the team suffers.

    Watch a Steeler game and tell me how every Steeler receiver is WIDE OPEN every play.
    They have been WIDE OPEN during the same time span including with Hines Ward who had nowhere near the speed of our Smith and Jones.

    "The Ravens do the least with the most." Steve Young




  4. #40

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens44 View Post
    "The Ravens do the least with the most." Steve Young
    I have said this since the start of the Harbaugh era.




  5. #41

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    I have said this since the start of the Harbaugh era.
    To your point,

    I don't think our offense excels; rather, IMO we under achieve.

    Obviously, there really is no data that I can put forth to show a discrepancy between where I think we should be and are.

    I can tell you that I think we have the players (OL excepted) to dominate and we don't.

    My expectations - our reality = disappointment.

    Here is my rant/random thoughts.

    Over the 30+ years of watching football, I can intuitively tell when an offense has a system that works or doesn't. Regularly successful systems tended to be pragmatic and evolve as personnel do.

    We have a problem with play selection and blaming everything on execution. Is it fair to tell my 5 year old to run the 50 in 4 seconds and then blame execution when he fails?

    The receiver has the advantage of knowing both what the play is and the parameters under which he will attempt to find the soft spot in the defense.

    We just run routes. And long ones at that.

    We have a truth over the last few years... our line cannot give our quarterback more than a couple of seconds reliably. Cry-Brady has 3-4. He can do the fancy long routes. And frankly, he sucks when doesn't get that much time... he proved it when we pressured him on the last drive in Baltimore. That our quarterback can find anybody open in 2 seconds with our system is frankly amazing.

    I think it goes without question that we need to help Flacco to throw his passes in the 2-3 not 3-4 second ranges. There are plenty of teams that have done this and I can think of one case where a fantastic defense could not overcome less than 3 seconds routes. Recall the Dolphins playing the 85 Bears. Marino was throwing that ball mighty quickly to avoid that outstanding pass rush. He can't throw a ball quickly if you aren't running short routes.

    I hated the 49ers and it irked the heck out of me when, routinely, either Montana/Young/insert backup quarterback, threw a whole 5-10 yard pass and the receiver who was up to full speed at the time of the catch would pick up 10 - 15 YAC.

    Where are the timing plays? I watched Aikman to Irvin in the 90's pull this off all the time. Still frankly amazed they were able to do it spite of teams knowing they were going to do it.

    Our system sucks. We're predictable and we are not pragmatic. Joe does not have time for the AC offense and I don't have the patience to wait for this dumb arse to figure that out.




  6. #42

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    I think Flacco does wonders with the what he has with the O-Line and moron coaching.




  7. #43

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    For the life of me I've never seen an entire fanbase defend poor QB play nearly unanimously by blaming the OC. It is unfathomable!

    Flacco has ALWAYS struggled getting the ball out on time. Watch. Seriously. Watch other QBs who release the ball immediately at the top of their drop. Then watch Flacco who gets to the top and is still staring down field. I even read one guy once say "you need to give Flacco 7 seconds to throw!" in his attempt to blame the OL.

    I just don't get it. Why are people so afraid to criticize the guy who has barely been a top 20 QB this year? Why are people so desperate to search for another scape goat and not just call a spade a spade?




  8. #44
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    For the life of me I've never seen an entire fanbase defend poor QB play nearly unanimously by blaming the OC. It is unfathomable!

    Flacco has ALWAYS struggled getting the ball out on time. Watch. Seriously. Watch other QBs who release the ball immediately at the top of their drop. Then watch Flacco who gets to the top and is still staring down field. I even read one guy once say "you need to give Flacco 7 seconds to throw!" in his attempt to blame the OL.

    I just don't get it. Why are people so afraid to criticize the guy who has barely been a top 20 QB this year? Why are people so desperate to search for another scape goat and not just call a spade a spade?
    Cam, is that you? You aren't listening...you aren't learning...
    Why are our receivers, especially our two speedsters not getting separation while all other teams have receivers running free??




  9. #45
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens44 View Post
    Cam, is that you? You aren't listening...you aren't learning...
    Why are our receivers, especially our two speedsters not getting separation while all other teams have receivers running free??
    How do you not explain all the great performances he's had in a Ravens uniform then? I don't need to mention them all, like this year nearly all his home games have been amazing.

    We wouldn't be 6-2 if it wasn't for Joe Flacco, the defense has been awful in most the games this year.




  10. #46

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    How do you not explain all the great performances he's had in a Ravens uniform then? I don't need to mention them all, like this year nearly all his home games have been amazing.

    We wouldn't be 6-2 if it wasn't for Joe Flacco, the defense has been awful in most the games this year.

    We wouldn't be 6-2 if it wasn't for Cam Cameron, either, then.




  11. #47

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    Not a hater, just stating the obvious. He's an average QB on a team with an average offense. They tried to give him more than he could handle and had to rein it in. It isn't the first time that it's happened by the way.

    And the ironic part is for all the hemming and hawing about how Cam "abandoned the run too early" in Houston it was acutally Flacco, on the record, stating that he audibled into a lot of those passes from called run plays in the no huddle early on in that game.
    Flacco can't get the wrs separation. Until we have an OC that can modernize the scheme it does not matter who is the QB. Every Ravens broadcast the announcers talk about the receivers not getting separation. The oline fails to progress under Cam and Moeller. That is not Joe's fault. Birk is pushed back into his face on every passing plays. LG doesnt pick up his block allowing guys to come untouched. The Tackles barely slow down the better pass rushers. Flacco has the shortest time of any QB in the league to get off a pass. Last year in the playoffs the team could not run the ball. The running game was putrid. We could not pick up 3rd and 1s. This is a poorly coached offense. If I were Flacco there is no way I would sign with the Ravens if they retain Cam. This team has coaching problems first and foremost. It is time to move on from the 60s and modernize.




  12. #48

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    I have to laugh. Our defense is what it is. 28th ranked or somewhere near there. If your D is that bad and you have 6 wins then your offense and more specifically your QB must be doing something to help you win, its not all Ray Rice obviously. That said, I am one of the people who agree the offense could be so much more with a better coordinator who is more willing to play to the strengths of his personnel rather than try to ram a system down their throats to execute.
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




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