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Thread: Guns...

  1. #109

    Re: Guns...



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I get what you're saying now. Yes one of the 23 actions is not an assault weapons ban.
    Which means its very unlikely to get through congress and if it does... Well we have more republicans to thank for that than democrats.

    I heard PA and NY passed some state laws though that would be by far the most strict in the country. I hard it on the radio about PA and cant seem to find a source that backs it but apparently similar to NY. NYs govenor is democraric but i know corbett is republican as is our house/senate so i find that odd. Maybe were not out of the water yet.
    -JAB




  2. #110

    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    OBY launches biggest gun control bill in a decade.

    23 executive actions/orders will be also be enacted.

    There's no way this bill pases unless Boner
    caves in again. Newt just blasted him on the debt ceiling debate and warned him about caving in.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D257873
    I was wondering what your take would be. I think the only thing it comes down to is when infact its right to "mock" the GOP which is probably more 50-50 than you like to do.

    Im hopeful that congress denies the AR ban but i have no idea. Honestly a lot of republicans seem to be alright with it at the moment.
    -JAB




  3. #111
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    i wouldnt say it does nothing to address sandy hook but its certainly pretty gun friendly overall. It has something about incentives for schools and guards/security. Mostly stricter and universal background checks, which is odd if they dont do that already and protocol for giving seized guns back. If im the NRA im not sure what id even argue.really?

    I still am hearing about a AR ban and clip size but apparently hes letting congress decide that without an executive order?

    Like ive said im pro gun but still think somethings could be done, this seems to be farely mutual compromise with keeping the 2nd amendment intact. If they still do the AR ban ill be a little pissed about it.
    It's definitely very gun friendly. But it's insidious still since it provides more funding, in a back door manner, to the ACA via an executive order.

    The NRA will do what the NRA always does -- scare up the base. It's my lone complaint about them but that's what they do to go along with the safety and training programs that are top notch.

    The President knows he's in a hole here and cannot afford to take on Congress on this issue. As I said before, it would never get out of committee in the House and there's enough gun friendly Senators to make it's passage there questionable as well. He had to punt that part to Congress.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  4. #112
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I was wondering what your take would be. I think the only thing it comes down to is when infact its right to "mock" the GOP which is probably more 50-50 than you like to do.

    Im hopeful that congress denies the AR ban but i have no idea. Honestly a lot of republicans seem to be alright with it at the moment.
    Hey man, I always say Boner in reference to a prick. That's a deliberate mis-spelling and mock on the GOP chief. He's always caving in so I hit the GOP too. I've also attacked Rove for destroying the GOP with all these libbies going back to W who wanted to legalize illegals and McCain and Mitt for pretending to be moderates or conservatives. I voted Libertarian because MItt was a liberal and I didn't believe anything he said he was gonna do. He flipped more than a McDonalds burger.

    You weren't even here when we hit W for the first TARP money and now Im thinking he's one of the worse Prez's ever.

    I give credit where credit is due man but this is a gun thread where the libbies are trying to take away our guns - again.
    I don't even own a gun. Knives are my weapons of choice and I was pretty good wielding one as a kid growing up
    behind Memorial Stadium. Still got a switch blade I took off a kid.

    But I'm all for the 2d amendment. It was a great DEM, Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the 2d amendment and his party
    is trying to destroy it now. If a nut wants to kill a bunch of kids all he has to do is throw some gas on the school and
    light it up with a match or have a suicide bomber walk in and push a button - BOOM!.

    People are still gonna die guns or no guns. A rock was the first weapon to kill a man when Cain killed Abel.


    Another famous DEM Prez said - GIVE ME A MILLION ARMED CITIZENS AND NO COUNTRY CAN DEFEAT US.

    ANDY JACKSON.

    They would hate this party today.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 01-16-2013 at 06:28 PM.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  5. #113

    Re: Guns...

    So watching the Daily Show last night, Stewart brought up something called the Tiahrt Amendment to the Patriot Act (which i was unfamiliar with), which was written by Todd Tiahrt and the NRA that basically hinders the ATF of ability to actually police. Its amazing to me that the group that keeps saying we dont need more laws just to enforce the ones we have is also behind the reason for those laws not being properly enforced. I guess its not ridiculous to think that the NRA doesnt want any laws so saying enforce the ones we have that are conveniently not being enforced due to legislation they wrote isnt a stretch on their agenda but it still doesnt make it right. I think they didnt do themselves any favors as part of the ATFs failure is the reason were introducing more legislation, when enforcing the laws we have the last 8-10 years may have greatly taken away any thought of more legislation.

    some highlights:
    The amendments restrict cities, states and even the police from fully accessing and using Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) gun trace data, which can show where illegal guns are coming from, who buys them and how they get trafficked across state lines and into our communities.
    this is a big one which i think we all agreed would be the most simple way of helping the actual sale of illegal firearms. Stewart brought up a stat that 57% of illegal firearm sales can be traced to roughly 1% of firearm dealers. Yet, with this amendment, theres little local police can do to actually find and shut down that 1%. Mayors against illegal Guns was formed to fight the Tiahrt Amendment for this reason.

    The Tiahrt restrictions are blocking Congressional oversight of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Explosives & Firearms (ATF) and its controversial “Operation Fast & Furious.” According to allegations, ATF allowed guns to be illegally trafficked to Mexico, possibly putting law enforcement officers in danger. ATF is prevented by Tiahrt from releasing trace data connected to Fast & Furious, forcing Congress to request the data from the Mexican Government.
    I know Obama got a lot of flack for this, although I think the ATF and other agencies do things like this regardless who is at the head, but seems its also stopping our own investigation of the matter. relying on Mexico for information in an investigation doesnt seem like its ever a good thing.

    The Tiahrt provisions require the Federal Bureau of Investigation to destroy certain background check records within 24 hours, making it nearly impossible to use those records to help solve crimes or to identify gun buyers with criminal histories who were mistakenly approved. Learn More
    The Tiahrt Amendments also block ATF from requiring gun dealers to conduct inventory checks to detect loss and theft, which law enforcement says is a dangerous back channel source for criminals who are in the market for illegal guns
    why stop them from doing inventory checks and deleting background check before more than a few or not even a few have seen them? Another comment made by Stewart citing another source was that although the ATF can check in on shops once every 12 months, due to circumstances and the smaller size of the ATF (2500 officers) its more like once every 17 years. Thats insane to me, that you can do business for 17 years roughly, illegally even, before getting even checked on, let alone if they actually find anything wrong.

    The whole thing is kind of laughable to me. The fact that it got thrown into the Patriot Act which was suppose to strengthen our intelligence is even more odd.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 01-18-2013 at 08:58 AM.
    -JAB




  6. #114
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    Re: Guns...

    I'll look more into this when I have time (although HR might already know what's up with this) but, I used to watch Jon Stewart even though he's biased, he is funny.

    I stopped though because he's beyond biased, he's a hack. I watched a few episodes where I thought he unveiled something where I was like "Man, that's crazy the news reported it that way, when this is how it really is" come to find out Stewart was twisting it. He's just as bad as Fox (who he almost exclusively pokes fun at).

    So my point is, take what he says with a grain of salt on this.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #115

    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I'll look more into this when I have time (although HR might already know what's up with this) but, I used to watch Jon Stewart even though he's biased, he is funny.

    I stopped though because he's beyond biased, he's a hack. I watched a few episodes where I thought he unveiled something where I was like "Man, that's crazy the news reported it that way, when this is how it really is" come to find out Stewart was twisting it. He's just as bad as Fox (who he almost exclusively pokes fun at).

    So my point is, take what he says with a grain of salt on this.
    just like anything media, you need to look into it. Hes not always right and twisting happens, usually pretty obviously in his case, but from what im reading this instance hes not off base. which is sad and just points out the hypocrisy that we have in politics. nothing gets done because everyone is speaking out of the side of their mouths. i cannot attest to the other stats he pointed out, which i believe were from the ATF themselves.

    I do think he and Colbert are funny, so i watch but typically as anything else i do look into what theyre saying if its true or up for interpretation.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 01-18-2013 at 09:01 AM.
    -JAB




  8. #116
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    Gun "tracing" equals a defacto gun registry.

    And it's not as though the Government doesn't know who buys weapons. That's an exaggeration from the administration. Every time you purchase a weapon, you have to fill out an ATF transfer form that lists all of your information, certain declarations as well as the make, model and serial number of the weapon. This is required for every gun purchase.

    What I don't agree with is a national requirement for me to go through that process if say I want to sell a weapon to a friend or pass it down to my kids.

    And if I purchase a Class III / NFA weapon, I have to sign away my 5th Amendment rights, allowing the ATF to inspect (and in some cases, seize) the weapon.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #117
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Gun "tracing" equals a defacto gun registry.

    And it's not as though the Government doesn't know who buys weapons. That's an exaggeration from the administration. Every time you purchase a weapon, you have to fill out an ATF transfer form that lists all of your information, certain declarations as well as the make, model and serial number of the weapon. This is required for every gun purchase.

    What I don't agree with is a national requirement for me to go through that process if say I want to sell a weapon to a friend or pass it down to my kids.

    And if I purchase a Class III / NFA weapon, I have to sign away my 5th Amendment rights, allowing the ATF to inspect (and in some cases, seize) the weapon.
    So you're saying the NRA is opposing for the most part a redundant law...
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    So you're saying the NRA is opposing for the most part a redundant law...
    I wouldn't say redundant. I'd call it further expansion of the law.

    Again, it hinders legal gun owners further than they already have been hindered, requiring us to inform the government that I no longer have said weapon.

    For example, my father gave me a Savage 24H over/under for Christmas. It was from the 1960's and is a rare, gorgeous weapon. He would have had to fill out an ATF transfer form just to give it to me.

    So when the NRA says just enforce the laws we already have, the are looking at situations like Fast & Furious, where gun laws were ignored in favor of a different strategy. Instead of tracking guns, go after the fuckers that bought the weapons in the first place. The guns used were part of a mass straw purchase and, IIRC, the DoJ knows who made the purchase and have yet to file charges.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #119
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I wouldn't say redundant. I'd call it further expansion of the law.

    Again, it hinders legal gun owners further than they already have been hindered, requiring us to inform the government that I no longer have said weapon.

    For example, my father gave me a Savage 24H over/under for Christmas. It was from the 1960's and is a rare, gorgeous weapon. He would have had to fill out an ATF transfer form just to give it to me.

    So when the NRA says just enforce the laws we already have, the are looking at situations like Fast & Furious, where gun laws were ignored in favor of a different strategy. Instead of tracking guns, go after the fuckers that bought the weapons in the first place. The guns used were part of a mass straw purchase and, IIRC, the DoJ knows who made the purchase and have yet to file charges.
    Makes sense. And I agree with both your two last post. Seems somewhat unnecessary to expand on what's already here.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #120

    Re: Guns...

    and this kind of stupidity is why I think their are things we can do to get rid of irresponsible gun owners. A simple argument turns into a gun fight where multiple people get hurt.

    man charged in shooting at college in houston
    -JAB




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