Do you wanna know why the Ravens don't run this offense on the road?

[lobachevsky]

Way to downplay a 55 point victory and going 7-2 at home. I expect nothing less here though.

I think you were looking for the "Blindly Optimistic Homer" forum--I think it's a couple of clicks down.

[Ravenous1]

I don't know if screens are going to work against the Steelers. Running screens against the Steelers is almost disrespectful. Screens haven't worked on them in years.

Agreed but throwing one or two in there to Rice is not a horrible option.

Slants on the other hand can be effective against them. Would like to see them get the ball in Jones and Smith's hands a few times via this method and see what they can do with it .

[lobachevsky]

...[T]he offense hasn't changed at all. When the players execute it works well, when they don't it can look pretty bad. And it really works well when your opponnent sucks.

Here's a theory for you: At home the OL moves at the sound of Flacco's call & keeps its heads up & aware, whereas the opposing defense moves when they see the ball snapped. On the road the OL moves when they see Birk snap the ball, which means they're looking down the line & moving (at best) at the same time as the players they need to block or separate from. The half-second differential turns a top-5 offense into a clusterfuck. How do you address that? No idea.

[wickedsolo]

Here's a theory for you: At home the OL moves at the sound of Flacco's call & keeps its heads up & aware, whereas the opposing defense moves when they see the ball snapped. On the road the OL moves when they see Birk snap the ball, which means they're looking down the line & moving (at best) at the same time as the players they need to block or separate from. The half-second differential turns a top-5 offense into a clusterfuck. How do you address that? No idea.

[Ravenswintitle]

it's not unusual at all for teams to abandon no huddle and play differently on the road. SiriusNFL did a segment on it two days ago. I can go nuts on the playcalls as well as anyone but last week was all Joe, he just went into a funk. Luckily he played well early and we hung on for the win

[JMUpurkfool]

it's not unusual at all for teams to abandon no huddle and play differently on the road. SiriusNFL did a segment on it two days ago. I can go nuts on the playcalls as well as anyone but last week was all Joe, he just went into a funk. Luckily he played well early and we hung on for the win

Not really. He was throwing on third and long all day mostly due to failed first and second down runs. The browns rushed four, played tight man and bracketed Pitta and sometimes Boldin forcing most passes outside. Any first down pass would have to be a perfect throw.

He made a couple of bad decisions but he also gave Torrey a good chance on a long ball and had a couple Dickson drops.

The entire offense was in a funk. First off, play calling. Secondly, player execution.

Tom Brady wouldn't be nearly as good if he was only throwing on third and long.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

It's been 4 and a half years.

This offense is not consistent enough doing the basics on the road to opine that we should act like the damn Patriots 24/7.

When they can go on the road and do basic things like...the OL picking up simple stunts, or not letting blitzers run free while having lineman stand there not doing anything (or hell, hold off a basic 4 man rush)...or WR's that can actually run good routes, and CATCH the ball when it is thrown to them...or the QB making accurate throws when things around him aren't perfect.

If you can't do those things in the passing game even when you are running the ball and making the defense adjust and account for the run, what the hell makes anybody think we should just go balls to the walls throwing all over the place and running a hurry up offense?

When the OL actually blocks someone, WR's get open and catch the ball, and the QB doesn't look flustered when things aren't going right around him...on a consistent basis, THEN you can expand the offense and do more.

[dandrews]

Because they ditched it, due to 'communication' issues, only to resort back to their ever predictable 'run run pass' offense of old, which is what they've done for past three years (Every time they've tried to open up the passing offense, at least) EVERY TIME THE PASSING OFFENSE STRUGGLES ON THE ROAD. Instead of trying to tweak some things to fix the problems, they just go, 'Oh, Joe can't handle it, let's just run Ray Rice into the ground'.

That's why you haven't seen this offense on the road. When they finally wake up and realize that Joe is going to have to throw them to a Super Bowl, they'll figure it out.

Sure, let's go ahead try to fix it, but when it doesn't work on the road because we're working out the kinks, Nobody is allowed to complain about losing. Deal?

[dandrews]

How do you address that? No idea.

Better offensive lineman.

Also, that's where the lack of communication comes into play. Oline presnap communication for picking up rushers is a whole different animal on the road.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Here's a theory for you: At home the OL moves at the sound of Flacco's call & keeps its heads up & aware, whereas the opposing defense moves when they see the ball snapped. On the road the OL moves when they see Birk snap the ball, which means they're looking down the line & moving (at best) at the same time as the players they need to block or separate from. The half-second differential turns a top-5 offense into a clusterfuck. How do you address that? No idea.

This, plus when the passing offense isn't working initially, Cam almost always goes into a shell (run, run, pass, punt--3 and out, 3 and out) and when that happens the offensive players often stop playing with confidence.

[bacchys]

What do you mean by "this offense"? I think they do run this offense at home and on the road. The difference today was that Joe had all kinds of time to throw the ball. The receivers got separation. Oakland made many mistakes in coverage. The running game was effective enough to make the play action work.

So in summary, the offense hasn't changed at all. When the players execute it works well, when they don't it can look pretty bad. And it really works well when your opponnent sucks.

It was more than just that. Play selection is a big part of it. Against the Raiders, we saw the Ravens come out the gate running, with Flacco hitting Boldin to keep the chains moving. That's how the Coryell system works. Pound the rock, throw when you must to get first downs, and when the defense creeps up you put it over their heads.

Cam, especially the last two years, keeps trying to flip that backwards. He tries even harder on the road.

The most successful offense running the Coryell system was the '91 Redskins. Byner would pound it up the middle, Rypien would hit Monk for first downs, and then Sanders deep when the defense gave it to them. The Redskins did it consistently throughout Gibbs's first tenure as head coach, and had three Super Bowl victories to show for it.

It's not a bad system, but it doesn't work backwards. You don't come out throwing it deep and work your way back to running the ball, because if throwing it deep doesn't work you find yourself compelled to keep throwing it deep.

Flacco's passes to Boldin in the first quarter helped him get into rhythm. There were a number of plays yesterday where he beat the blitz more than the blocking scheme eating it up. He dropped back and threw quickly. That happened because he and the receivers were clicking: they'd developed a rhythm in the game that made him comfortable. You don't develop that rhythm chucking the rock down the field. You get it with slants and 5-10 yard patterns that move the chains. Hopefully Harbaugh is looking at Cameron today and saying "More of this."

[bacchys]

This, plus when the passing offense isn't working initially, Cam almost always goes into a shell (run, run, pass, punt--3 and out, 3 and out) and when that happens the offensive players often stop playing with confidence.

What? I don't think so. Cam goes into a shell alright, and the result seems to be three-and-outs more often than not, but it's not "run, run, pass, punt." It's "pass, pass, pass, punt." Sometimes he gets tricky and it's "pass, run, pass, punt," but when the early reliance on the deep ball doesn't work, Cam keeps trying to force it. It's almost like he's an old man who has hit the gas peddle instead of the brake, and he's desperately pushing it harder hoping doing so will stop the car...

[leachisabeast]

I think you were looking for the "Blindly Optimistic Homer" forum--I think it's a couple of clicks down.

How can I blindly be optimistic at 7-2? There comes a point in time when people need to accept that this team while flawed on both sides of the ball, does enough to win most of their games.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

What? I don't think so. Cam goes into a shell alright, and the result seems to be three-and-outs more often than not, but it's not "run, run, pass, punt." It's "pass, pass, pass, punt." Sometimes he gets tricky and it's "pass, run, pass, punt," but when the early reliance on the deep ball doesn't work, Cam keeps trying to force it. It's almost like he's an old man who has hit the gas peddle instead of the brake, and he's desperately pushing it harder hoping doing so will stop the car...

Actually, we're both right.

You described what Cam tends to do when the Ravens fall behind.
I described what Cam tends to do when the Ravens have a lead.
(I guess I had the Browns game still fresh in my mind. Since that was the last game the offense floundered--at least for about half the game)

So, in the example I gave, of the passing game not working, if it happens before the Ravens take the lead, Cam does NOT tend to go run-run-pass-punt. As you said, instead he'll abandon the run and go pass-pass-pass.

But if the passing game stops working after the Ravens have taken a lead (or even if it hasn't) then he WILL often go run-run-pass-punt.

And your analogy of an old man hitting the gas instead of the brakes is spot on.
That's our Cam alright.

[landspeed]

Way to downplay a 55 point victory and going 7-2 at home. I expect nothing less here though.

you need a grip on reality. Yes, we won 55-20, but against one of the worst defenses in the league and at home where we are a completely different team. Nobody is questioning this teams performance at home, but everyone is questioning it on the road.

Until this offense can play similar on the road to how they do at home, we will never make the superbowl.

[leachisabeast]

you need a grip on reality. Yes, we won 55-20, but against one of the worst defenses in the league and at home where we are a completely different team. Nobody is questioning this teams performance at home, but everyone is questioning it on the road.

Until this offense can play similar on the road to how they do at home, we will never make the superbowl.

I do have a grip on reality we are 7-2, and are 2-2 on the road. The only person who needs to get a grip on reality is you, you need to know that this is the NFL, not Madden, we aren't going to win every game, winning in the NFL is a very hard thing to do especially on the road. This team do need to improve on the road so we can have the best record possible going into the play offs for home field, but don't forget that a certain 9-7 team went on to win the SB last year when nobody expected it, and the year before that a 10-6 Green Bay team done pretty much the same thing. As far as I'm concerned, this is a great record to have for such a flawed team.

[bacchys]

Actually, we're both right.

You described what Cam tends to do when the Ravens fall behind.
I described what Cam tends to do when the Ravens have a lead.
(I guess I had the Browns game still fresh in my mind. Since that was the last game the offense floundered--at least for about half the game)

So, in the example I gave, of the passing game not working, if it happens before the Ravens take the lead, Cam does NOT tend to go run-run-pass-punt. As you said, instead he'll abandon the run and go pass-pass-pass.

But if the passing game stops working after the Ravens have taken a lead (or even if it hasn't) then he WILL often go run-run-pass-punt.

And your analogy of an old man hitting the gas instead of the brakes is spot on.
That's our Cam alright.

I don't mind run-run-pass, especially early in the game or when we have a good lead. The problem isn't the run-run-pass, it's the run-run-throw it deep down the sideline play selection, especially early in games, but even when we have a lead. Flacco needs to hear the words "throw it to Boldin" before he trots on the field every time. Whenever we need to get a drive and he throws it to Boldin, we start moving the chains. That's how we clawed back to win at home against Arizona last year. That's how the game-winning drive started against the Browns. Run the ball, and throw it to Boldin.

That's how the Coryell is designed to work, and Cam's insistence on trying to go backwards down the play chart is what stalls this offense.

[lobachevsky]

How can I blindly be optimistic at 7-2? There comes a point in time when people need to accept that this team while flawed on both sides of the ball, does enough to win most of their games.

Oh, dear me, Beast, there also comes a time when people need to realize that this team has had many good things handed to them on silver platters by their opponents, e.g., Palmer getting tripped by his own guard on that early 4th down play. Not that I'm complaining about it--I just think it's nutz to expect that to continue. I have trouble seeing how we get to 10 wins without catching a few more (maybe more than a few more) breaks along the way, & while the Law of Averages is only valid over a lot longer stretch than a football season, things do have a way of regressing to the mean--i.e., evening out.

[bacchys]

Oh, dear me, Beast, there also comes a time when people need to realize that this team has had many good things handed to them on silver platters by their opponents...

That's what I kept saying the year Big Ben won his second Super Bowl. They kept getting breaks, and Roethlisberger kept playing with fire- that is, taking snaps behind that porous O-line.