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  1. #13

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    My memory of this was not that he wasn't injured, but that he exaggerated how he was injured. Maybe I'm wrong...
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...dical_records/

    Heres a good story about his released records, after he lost the election, and how they contained commendations from some of the very people who later criticized him. to me thats blatantly obvious what their attentions were. Had nothing to do with Kerry the man but Kerry the democrat. He definitely stepped on some of his military friends toes when he returned and spoke out against war. I guess that doesnt necessarily mean he didnt exaggerate to some degree, but apparently his record pretty much speaks for itself. Like i said, i didnt really like him that much as a candidate, but i didnt really think his service was in question. If he released that same information earlier, maybe he would have won. it was a close one after all.
    -JAB




  2. #14
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Man, you young guys don't remember any of this but it was all brought out in the election. I thought everyone knew.
    I'm looking at the book UNFIT FOR COMMAND by John O'Neil the naval officer who took over Kerry's swift boat in the muddy
    waters of Vietnam. O'Neil was there and said Kerry was and is unfit for command as a naval officer let alone as commander in
    chief of the US.

    Speaking of the medals he says 2 of Kerry's purple hearts resulted from self inflicted wounds not by enemy fire. The 3rd was a
    "fanny wound." That was the highlight of his much touted Bronze Star.

    He raised false reports on the trajic death a father and a small Vietnamese child into an act of heroism by filing a false report
    on the incident.

    As for that entire crew - Kerry's reckless behavior convinced his colleagues that he had to go becoming the only swift boat veteran to serve only four months in Vietnam. And in the middle of the book is a pic of that crew and they all hated him.
    Also a pic of his pic in Hanoi's museum with a plaque that displays his pic with the caption thanking him and all
    the members of the working communist parties around the world and thus the commie parody in the OP of this thread.

    He burned down homes of innocent civilians with a zippo lighter and killed all their animals.

    Then he became a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and attended one of their meetings where the subject
    of assassinating prominent US Senators was discussed.


    Some believe he violated the uniform code of military justice by meeting with communist delegates at the Paris Peace
    Conference during the war.

    All that is on the flap of the book.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 11-13-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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  3. #15
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    As for that Boston Globe report, on P. 55 of the book it talks about Kerry and his crew on a sampan where a small child
    was killed.

    Kerry said he wasn't sure when the boy on the sampam was killed, a navy report says a similar sounding
    event took place in 69. Kerry was the skipper of PC 44 at the time. The Kerry Presidential campaign
    sent a copy of the report but did not respond when asked if it matched Kerry's memory of the night the child was killed. Globe reporters who unknowingly uncovered a critical piece of evidence were skeptical that there could have been two such incidents. Eye witness Gunner Steve Gardner disputes Kerry. According to Gardner, Kerry threatened to court martial all those involved.

    The Globe and Times said Gardner made up his stories. Kerry said he couldn't remember the court martial
    threat. The Division Commander never knew about the death of the small child because all he ever got from Kerry was a false report.

    Numerous Coastal Division 11 swifties recall the sampan incident with true distaste for Kerry.
    Swift Boat officer Bill Franke also criticizes Kerry for breaking the rules of engagement. Kerry chose not
    to honor this code.

    More details are on p.59 and 60 of this book.


    Yup, more than his entire crew hated Kerry.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 11-13-2012 at 01:27 PM.
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  4. #16

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Man, you young guys don't remember any of this but it was all brought out in the election. I thought everyone knew.
    I'm looking at the book UNFIT FOR COMMAND by John O'Neil the naval officer who took over Kerry's swift boat in the muddy
    waters of Vietnam. O'Neil was there and said Kerry was and is unfit for command as a naval officer let alone as commander in
    chief of the US.

    Speaking of the medals he says 2 of Kerry's purple hearts resulted from self inflicted wounds not by enemy fire. The 3rd was a
    "fanny wound." That was the highlight of his much touted Bronze Star.

    He raised false reports on the trajic death a father and a small Vietnamese child into an act of heroism by filing a false report
    on the incident.

    As for that entire crew - Kerry's reckless behavior convinced his colleagues that he had to go becoming the only swift boat veteran to serve only four months in Vietnam. And in the middle of the book is a pic of that crew and they all hated him.
    Also a pic of his pic in Hanoi's museum with a plaque that displays his pic with the caption thanking him and all
    the members of the working communist parties around the world and thus the commie parody in the OP of this thread.

    He burned down homes of innocent civilians with a zippo lighter and killed all their animals.

    Then he became a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and attended one of their meetings where the subject
    of assassinating prominent US Senators was discussed.


    Some believe he violated the uniform code of military justice by meeting with communist delegates at the Paris Peace
    Conference during the war.

    All that is on the flap of the book.
    youre book is by the guy that says Kerry lied and started the whole SVBT group in the first place. Of course its going to support the claims SVBT put out. Oneill also has ties to the Bush family for the record. add it up and its not hard to see where all of this came from. it was conveniently released right before the election in 2004 but yet the military documents said the exact opposite of his claims were released in 2008. Numerous claims from that book have been "debunked". Simply a man with a vendetta and/or agenda. if you choose to believe it, so be it, but its certainly not been "proven" by any measure. The guy was there, but so were the other 2-3 guys that said it was bullshit. One guy is lying, or are multiple guys lying (Kerry, his officers above him, his fellow soldiers that wrote letters of eye witness, etc). They dont typically hand out medals for nothing and without validation. to each their own i guess but i typically go with the path of least resistance. Whether or not he was fit to command is whole other issue. I dont think he was, but i didnt think Bush was either.

    ill take the reports and eyewitness accounts from 30 years prior vs the ones right before the election. we know how that can change a persons opinon from time to time... like Mitt Romney.
    -JAB




  5. #17
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Nothing that Corsi wrote has ever been dis-proven so you're going to need to back this up, JAB.

    As for medals being handed out, well, yes, medals were handed out left and right during Vietnam. It was a highly unpopular war and medals were issued like candy to keep morale up. The NYT did a piece way back in the day on this very phenomenon and it was the catalyst for why many Vets at the time were throwing them away. They did not think they deserved them.

    You've decided to believe Kerry's version and that's your right. But that's not license to then say what Corsi et all wrote was dishonest, regardless what wiki is telling you. Dozens of people have come forward to give their version of the events. Kerry managed, at most, 3 to back up his.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #18
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    And Kerry has ties to the Boston Globe and NY Times plus the rest of the liberal mainstream media that covered his crap
    just like they did the Libyan incident for OBY.

    O'Neil wasnt the only swifty to say these things and I just posted a quote about numerous other swifties in the division that
    hated him.

    The only ones that loved him were his liberal commie comrads in the Veterans against the Vitenam War.

    Man, you libs are so blind. This book posts photos of Kerry in Hanoi's War Crime Museum for Americans. Kerry is the only
    one it praises and gives thanks for.

    That's evidence.
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  7. #19
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Nothing that Corsi wrote has ever been dis-proven so you're going to need to back this up, JAB.

    As for medals being handed out, well, yes, medals were handed out left and right during Vietnam. It was a highly unpopular war and medals were issued like candy to keep morale up. The NYT did a piece way back in the day on this very phenomenon and it was the catalyst for why many Vets at the time were throwing them away. They did not think they deserved them.

    You've decided to believe Kerry's version and that's your right. But that's not license to then say what Corsi et all wrote was dishonest, regardless what wiki is telling you. Dozens of people have come forward to give their version of the events. Kerry managed, at most, 3 to back up his.
    And these are the other founders of their group besides O'Neil:


    Founding members of SBVT include Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann (retired), a former commander of Swift boat forces; Colonel Bud Day, who received the Medal of Honor.

    BTW, great post HR.
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Nothing that Corsi wrote has ever been dis-proven so you're going to need to back this up, JAB.
    \
    The Swift Boat nonsense was THOROUGHLY debunked as early as 2004. Check out this article summarizing multiple claims and how they can all be disproven simply by reading the military records: http://mediamatters.org/research/200...efend-s/131876

    The relevant military documents are linked to in the article for people who would like to do their own research.

    The Swift Boat issue was a smear job. Period. It had little to no factual grounding and anyone still repeating its lies is either misinformed or willfully propagating slander.


    Now, all that said, Kerry isn't getting the Defense job. He'd have to give up his Senate seat and then the Republicans have a really good chance of getting Scott Brown into it. Obama isn't going to weaken an already slim Democratic majority if he can avoid it.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  9. #21
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    I am sorry but Media Matters is no more a credible source for information on SBV than the Media Research Center would be on the Libya attacks.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #22
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I am sorry but Media Matters is no more a credible source for information on SBV than the Media Research Center would be on the Libya attacks.
    Instead of reading the link and then dismissing it, read the article and point out what they said that is even a debatable opinion. Everything in that article is factual information. Not to mention, they linked to the actual documents. Ignore their commentary and read the first hand sources as I suggested.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  11. #23
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Instead of reading the link and then dismissing it, read the article and point out what they said that is even a debatable opinion. Everything in that article is factual information. Not to mention, they linked to the actual documents. Ignore their commentary and read the first hand sources as I suggested.
    And I have, but from a relatively unbiased source ....

    http://www.factcheck.org/republican-...ar_record.html

    Pretty even handed break down of what was said what was not said. Even they concluded "At this point, 35 years later and half a world away, we see no way to resolve which of these versions of reality is closer to the truth".

    So it's about which way you lean it would seem.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  12. #24
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which former Swift Boat veterans claim Kerry lied to get one of his two decorations for bravery and two of his three purple hearts.
    But the veterans who accuse Kerry are contradicted by Kerry's former crewmen, and by Navy records.


    That's also in the fact check article.

    In fact, the vast majority of that article is a virtual repeat of the media matters one. Multiple original sources disproving or providing strong evidence against the Swift Boat claims.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




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