Obligatory Fire Cam Thread

**AirFlacco** · 11-19-2012, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Really?

Just last week you were making fun of the doom and gloomers.

It's a road win against a divisional foe, one that happens to have the best defense in the league.

Cam gets a pass. Especially considering the lack of execution.

DITTO.

For those calling for a run, Rice only had 40 yds running the ball, 20 in each half. The
o-line wasn't blocking for him. Rice had more yds receiving with 53.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201211...ghts&tab=recap

I'll question 3d and long there since Joe isn't that reliable but us old timers remember
Johnny U running that play all the time with everyone expecting the run but he throws
deep. Joe just isn't as good there obviously.

With Rice's 53 yds passing on short routes, maybe a short dump or swing pass but no
way CAm is running the ball with no blocking for him. Blame the o-line, not Cam.

CAM won and on the road in enemy territory and put Piss back another game. That's all that matters.

**RavensQB** · 11-19-2012, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

DITTO.

For those calling for a run, Rice only had 40 yds running the ball, 20 in each half. The
o-line wasn't blocking for him. Rice had more yds receiving with 53.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201211...ghts&tab=recap

I'll question 3d and long there since Joe isn't that reliable but us old timers remember
Johnny U running that play all the time with everyone expecting the run but he throws
deep. Joe just isn't as good there obviously.

With Rice's 53 yds passing on short routes, maybe a short dump or swing pass but no
way CAm is running the ball with no blocking for him. Blame the o-line, not Cam.

CAM won and on the road in enemy territory and put Piss back another game. That's all that matters.

A win is a win. But dont even DARE to think CAM really was part of it!!! CHILD PLEASE!

**AirFlacco** · 11-19-2012, 01:15 AM

Thank U for the respect.

Tomlin has beaten CAM's offense 5 times.

CAM has beaten his offense 6 times.

That's the way it is. Dig this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tomlin

**GOTA** · 11-19-2012, 04:38 AM

Road games are very tough to enjoy with this guy calling the plays

**wickedsolo** · 11-19-2012, 05:37 AM

You know, calling a pass on 3rd and 2 when the clock was winding down wasn't the worst call in the world. I don't agree with it because you basically are going to stop the clock or get your QB hit. Both of which, in that situation, are never great options.

After thinking about it, the reason why I'm not too down on Cam for calling a pass there is because Rice really wasn't having much success running the ball. This OL has some issues with opening up holes on short yardage situations. Casey Hampton pretty much owns Matt Birk.

(As a caveat though...wasn't that the purpose of drafting a 230lb running back in the 3rd round?)

The issue I have with the pass play that was called is you have Ed Dickson and Jacoby Jones running the exact same route on the same side of the field. Who in their right mind looks at two 9 routes on the same side of the field with about 10 yards of separation (width-wise) between them and goes: "That will work!"

Plays like that are why guys like Greg Cossell shake their head at Cam Cameron because you've made it easier for the defense to defend the play. Even with 1-on-1 coverage on that side of the field, technically it could be classified as double coverage. As soon as the ball is in the air the defender who is on the guy that is obviously NOT getting the ball (based on the trajectory) is going to break off and jump the route (that just so happens to be right beside him) and thereby increasing the odds for a turnover or incomplete pass.

Furthermore, I think a much more egregious call was when it was about 3rd and 15 and they ran a quick WR screen to Jacoby. Why in the world would you run a passing play on 3rd and long that is designed to get the ball to the receiver BEHIND the line of scrimmage is beyond me. I must be an idiot. Because that shit doesn't compute for me.

Last, but not least, Ike Taylor (for a large portion of the game) was lining up 8-12 yards off when covering Torrey Smith. Did no one think to run a quick screen to Torrey? It may not have gone for many yards, but Torrey is fast enough and hard enough to bring down that it is likely he would have gotten something AND it would have forced Ike to creep up to the line of scrimmage more, which could potentially open up other areas of the field...possibly for a deep 5 or 7 route to Boldin, Doss, or Dickson.

**arnie_uk** · 11-19-2012, 05:54 AM

You've just summarized my thoughts throughout the game. For me a pass was the right option, the play however was not. A playaction rollout torrey going deep to take away a safety and boldin across the middle to occupy linebackers and hit leach in the flat was my call.

And I noticed ike playing off coverage all the time. Guess how teams attack Cary when he plays soft? Quick passes for 5 to 10 yards a pop. Cam clearly hasn't been paying any attention anyway.

He called one quick pass to smith on the final drive I think and he got eight yards on first down. He could have done that five or six more times until they pressed

**inexplicable** · 11-19-2012, 07:05 AM

I'm glad it isn't just me who doesn't hate the call. As far as I'm concerned, that was effectively a play designed to take a sack: Joe took the snap, scanned to see if anyone was completely open in the flat and then took the sack by pretty much dropping to the floor. Watch it again, he looks to the flat to his right where Rice was clearly supposed to be and from then on he's looking over his shoulder and waiting for Harrison to get to him. By the time Harrison reaches him he's pretty much on the floor.

I would wager that Joe was instructed to take a sack in around 80% of eventualities. As far as I can tell (and I admit, I'm no expert in offensive play calling) it was designed to clear the flat by having Torrey, Boldin and Jones run intermediate routes and hopefully get it to Rice for the first down, but the Steelers were ready for that and jammed Rice at the line. The result was that the clock continued to run and we didn't turn it over. Conventional play calling would have had Rice run the ball, but Ray was averaging 2 yards per carry. If we came out with 8 men on the line and ran the ball behind Leach, I'd put our chances of converting at about 25% with an increased chance of turning it over on a fumble.

As a couple of people have said earlier, the problem was with the minutia: the pass out to Rice was followed all the way by the Steelers, the WR routes didn't clear enough room, and it probably would've been helpful to have Leach out there to a) give Flacco another passing option on the other flat, effectively a Spider play and b) distract the Steelers into thinking it could be a draw.

I'm not saying it was the right play call, it's that the difference between what Cam called and a possible run up the middle are negligible in quality. I'm by no means a Cam fan, but conservative play calls were needed and that's precisely what we got. To be honest, it's quite nice that the day after a road game against our biggest rival, this board's primary complaint is about a play call that resulted in a punt during the last 2 minutes, and not complaining about Flacco, overall offensive strategy, special teams or the defense's performance.

**Ravenalytics** · 11-19-2012, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by inexplicable

I'm glad it isn't just me who doesn't hate the call. As far as I'm concerned, that was effectively a play designed to take a sack: Joe took the snap, scanned to see if anyone was completely open in the flat and then took the sack by pretty much dropping to the floor. Watch it again, he looks to the flat to his right where Rice was clearly supposed to be and from then on he's looking over his shoulder and waiting for Harrison to get to him. By the time Harrison reaches him he's pretty much on the floor.

Harbs talked about this play in his post-game presser - basically him, Cam, and Joe huddled together to discuss it. Joe was the one who lobbied for it, saying if they got the completion, they win the game, and if no safe pass was open, he'd take the sack so that they could run 40 seconds off the clock. They didn't want to risk a fumble or INT.

**bmorecareful** · 11-19-2012, 07:09 AM

Making matters worse is that IF they REALLY wanted to run a pass play, they should have just called a max-protect shot play on 2nd down because the clock was at 2:04... NO MATTER WHAT the clock is going to stop, so why not line up in the I, run play-action, and take a shot? If you hit the play you'll be in a clock stoppage anyway w/the 2 minute warning, if it's incomplete it won't matter anyway!

There were a few good play calls last night, but overall it was a terrible effort by Cam, execution notwithstanding. There's no way anyone can defend him anymore. The difference between home and road offense is very simple: Cam calling the plays on the road is bad, Joe running the no-huddle and adjusting the offense at home is good. That's the explanation.

I'm also seriously beginning to question the entire offensive staff and their ability to run effective practices. Seeing Flacco and his WRs completely out of sync and off rhythm on the sideline passes, seeing Rice consistently miss open holes and leave yards on the field, and seeing the OL running the same snap count routine and getting beat over and over...

The offense just looks uncoached way too often. As a matter of fact so does the defense, but that's another story.

**Ravenswintitle** · 11-19-2012, 07:12 AM

I saw Flacco throw about 7 or 8 sideline routes high. He was horrible.

I'm loving a win on the road against the #1 defense and I am not gonna call anyone out but if there's a finger to be pointed, it's at the QB.

**Justlovemybirds** · 11-19-2012, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

You know, calling a pass on 3rd and 2 when the clock was winding down wasn't the worst call in the world. I don't agree with it because you basically are going to stop the clock or get your QB hit. Both of which, in that situation, are never great options.

After thinking about it, the reason why I'm not too down on Cam for calling a pass there is because Rice really wasn't having much success running the ball. This OL has some issues with opening up holes on short yardage situations. Casey Hampton pretty much owns Matt Birk.

(As a caveat though...wasn't that the purpose of drafting a 230lb running back in the 3rd round?)

The issue I have with the pass play that was called is you have Ed Dickson and Jacoby Jones running the exact same route on the same side of the field. Who in their right mind looks at two 9 routes on the same side of the field with about 10 yards of separation (width-wise) between them and goes: "That will work!"

Plays like that are why guys like Greg Cossell shake their head at Cam Cameron because you've made it easier for the defense to defend the play. Even with 1-on-1 coverage on that side of the field, technically it could be classified as double coverage. As soon as the ball is in the air the defender who is on the guy that is obviously NOT getting the ball (based on the trajectory) is going to break off and jump the route (that just so happens to be right beside him) and thereby increasing the odds for a turnover or incomplete pass.

Furthermore, I think a much more egregious call was when it was about 3rd and 15 and they ran a quick WR screen to Jacoby. Why in the world would you run a passing play on 3rd and long that is designed to get the ball to the receiver BEHIND the line of scrimmage is beyond me. I must be an idiot. Because that shit doesn't compute for me.

Last, but not least, Ike Taylor (for a large portion of the game) was lining up 8-12 yards off when covering Torrey Smith. Did no one think to run a quick screen to Torrey? It may not have gone for many yards, but Torrey is fast enough and hard enough to bring down that it is likely he would have gotten something AND it would have forced Ike to creep up to the line of scrimmage more, which could potentially open up other areas of the field...possibly for a deep 5 or 7 route to Boldin, Doss, or Dickson.

Or how about a flippin Slant or Hitch route every once and a while, I damn near threw my phone at TV on the bubble screen.

**BIGBALL** · 11-19-2012, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

I saw Flacco throw about 7 or 8 sideline routes high. He was horrible.

I'm loving a win on the road against the #1 defense and I am not gonna call anyone out but if there's a finger to be pointed, it's at the QB.

I'm gonna disagree just a bit RWT.. I agree Joe was throwing high, but I watched closely, and just about every our route - which cam call more than any other coach in history - they were sliding people a bit under the route as well. The only place on a lot of those places to throw was high. But I do agree some passes were off, but every QB has those. I think what hurt the offense more than anything else was losing Pitta. He is the main offenses across he middle, and Joe's favorite target, and once he went out, Pitt could bracket the outside. I would have had Rice line up a bit in the slot and make the LB's cover him, but hey - what do I know...

**lovefootball** · 11-19-2012, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

Harbs talked about this play in his post-game presser - basically him, Cam, and Joe huddled together to discuss it. Joe was the one who lobbied for it, saying if they got the completion, they win the game, and if no safe pass was open, he'd take the sack so that they could run 40 seconds off the clock. They didn't want to risk a fumble or INT.

How many losses did we have with steelers defense getting the ball back in the 4th quarter so their offense could kick a field goal to win the game. On passes, Flacco has been stripped before by TP and the Ravens lose. Interception would have been worse if it was a pick 6. Arm chair coaches always have a better plan.. We won, they lost, 8-2 with a two game lead for the division crown.

**Rxdoxx** · 11-19-2012, 07:37 AM

The credit I have to give Cam is that it was the most perfectly executed sack play I have ever seen called. No dispute there.
Joe delayed a little, then turned his body away from the pressure, moved his other arm to the ball and went down. If I was an olympic judge, I'd be holding up a 10!

It is always going to be about execution as far as Cam himself is concerned. Always.
The ultimate blame shifting.... it is your fault what I called didn't work... but in this case it worked perfectly ... do you think if we offered Miami enough they would take him back?

I have never heard of a sack play being called before. I've heard of taking a knee, I've heard of dance around some giving up ground to run out the clock, but never heard of take a sack as the main option.

**wickedsolo** · 11-19-2012, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by lovefootball

How many losses did we have with steelers defense getting the ball back in the 4th quarter so their offense could kick a field goal to win the game. On passes, Flacco has been stripped before by TP and the Ravens lose. Interception would have been worse if it was a pick 6. Arm chair coaches always have a better plan.. We won, they lost, 8-2 with a two game lead for the division crown.

Had it been Roethlisberger and not LEftwich, that would have been too much time on the clock.

That situation points to a larger issue though: Cam running a "not to lose" offense on the road.

**RavensQB** · 11-19-2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

I saw Flacco throw about 7 or 8 sideline routes high. He was horrible.

I'm loving a win on the road against the #1 defense and I am not gonna call anyone out but if there's a finger to be pointed, it's at the QB.

I guess you pay attention SO WELL. Ryan Clark was undercutting the routes. Only way to complete that pass is to be HIGH. once again Horrible play calls by CAM. The Middle of the field was open all day long. Screen passes and the non stop blitz open all day long. This was an easy adjustment. Pee wee fking football. But your right. Blame the QB for having to have to keep trying to throw the same damn thing over and over.

**wickedsolo** · 11-19-2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Rxdoxx

The credit I have to give Cam is that it was the most perfectly executed sack play I have ever seen called. No dispute there.
Joe delayed a little, then turned his body away from the pressure, moved his other arm to the ball and went down. If I was an olympic judge, I'd be holding up a 10!

It is always going to be about execution as far as Cam himself is concerned. Always.
The ultimate blame shifting.... it is your fault what I called didn't work... but in this case it worked perfectly ... do you think if we offered Miami enough they would take him back?

I have never heard of a sack play being called before. I've heard of taking a knee, I've heard of dance around some giving up ground to run out the clock, but never heard of take a sack as the main option.

Or, here's a thought...how about a QB roll out? I'm tired of seeing an offense that seems to pigeon hole Flacco into this immobile statue.

Flacco has the ability to move. He's a lot quicker and tougher to bring down than people would think. Hell, even Peyton's ancient ass is out there running bootlegs and scrambling to pick up 1st down's when he has to.

Flacco is not Drew Bledsoe. You wouldn't know that though.

**Paintballguy** · 11-19-2012, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Or, here's a thought...how about a QB roll out? I'm tired of seeing an offense that seems to pigeon hole Flacco into this immobile statue.

Flacco has the ability to move. He's a lot quicker and tougher to bring down than people would think. Hell, even Peyton's ancient ass is out there running bootlegs and scrambling to pick up 1st down's when he has to.

Flacco is not Drew Bledsoe. You wouldn't know that though.

Agreed. People seem to think Flacco is slow because of how he looks, but that is definitely not the case. Cam never gives him opportunities to use his feet.

**Jsmoove** · 11-19-2012, 07:49 AM

How bout that QB sneak on that 3rd and 1 play huh? A 6'6 230lb QB we need 1 yard. Oh lets run right in casey hapmton with ray rice, 3rd and 2 you go shotgun? You Pierce who had couple nice solid off tackle runs and some guy name vontea leach, and cam sure went back to his road offense with every pass play going to the sidelines AGAIN!..ah boy im with GOTA its hard to enjoy these with kinda calls, but some how we keep finding ways to beat opponents and cam cameron.

**esmd** · 11-19-2012, 07:55 AM

OMFG, you guys are unbelieveable. Did you all forget the previous 3rd and short where they ran it with Rice and got STUFFED???? If anything, I was screaming at that one to do something unconventional rather than the old run up the middle. I get that you need to run clock there, but they did the right thing, take the pass if it was there, and if not, take the sack. Christ, some ppl are just never happy....