"100% Completion or take a sack..." - ???

[bensmotorcyclehelmt]

I wanted a stretch play, Rice to the edge.

Or:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDZu-5ia2pM



But sure, I guess a sack will do...

[Ravenswintitle]

it makes sense, an incompletion stops the clock. What baffled me is Tomlin taking that time out

[Sua Sponte]

I've been flipping through all of these threads about this play and it amazes me that some of you think that it was an OK play call. I did not take statistics, but even I know that a Pass play is way more risky than just lining up and running. The strectch run right was working a bit (even though we did not run it much for some reason, instead we continued to run into a brick wall) Go Jumbo with Leach hand the effing ball off and just maybe pick up the 1st.

Negatives;
Pass: INC (stops clock), INT (very bad), Strip Sack (very bad)
Run: Come up short (Clock keeps running), Chances of Fumble are there, but not as likely with the RB knowing to protect the ball,

So again as I did on the other thread, just some good ole basic stats
Pass Negatives = 3
Run Negatives = 1

[phacts]

They're not going to catch Pitt napping when they line up in the shotgun!!! Should have lined up in running formation even if pass or sack was the call!

Ding ding ding. We have the correct answer. Lining up in the shotgun there is inexcusable, because it allows the defense to play the pass. Almost any other formation forces them to commit to stop the run (meaning the linebackers have to freeze for an instant to determine if it's a run or pass), allowing us to either a) run the ball, or b) pass the ball, or c) run play action.

Instead we lined up in shotgun, where the only threat of a run is a draw or Joe taking off. Both of which take time to develop, and allow the defense to more comfortably play the short quick pass. Strategically, the play we ran was a joke.

[Boulderraven]

He for sure was only looking for a wide open WR, if none take the sack. But, on 3rd and 2, I would have designed a run play, better odds less risk.

[cbaywolf]

Also agree- the formation was plain DUMB- at least make them think that you *might* run. I also agree, that *if* we are going to throw, the rollout is the best option to either: A) Eat it and save the clock B) run it for a 1st down C) throw to a wide open receiver.

That being said- the one play that I've NEVER seen stopped on short yardage is the play where you fake a dive to the right (the running back takes one false step that direction which sucks down the DE), and then do the pitch in the complete opposite direction around the left end. We've run that play at least 4 times in must-have yardage situations, and I've NEVER seen it stopped, and that would have been the perfect play call there.

[Haloti92]

That being said- the one play that I've NEVER seen stopped on short yardage is the play where you fake a dive to the right (the running back takes one false step that direction which sucks down the DE), and then do the pitch in the complete opposite direction. We've run that play at least 4 times in must have yardage situations, and I've NEVER seen it stopped, and that would have been the perfect play call there.

Yes. Exactly what I said. The counter-toss. We broke it out at home this year once on a short yardage play and got it easily (can't remember if it was vs Cincy or Cleveland). We used to break it out occasionally with Jamal way back when as well.

It is the perfect call for aggressive run defenses. And we run it about once a season instead of once per game. Even if the DE/OLB doesn't quite fully bite, you still have your RB out in space running laterally vs. one defender. And if your RB is quick, he can just choose when to turn it up and be virtually assured of getting two yards. Even if tackled, the tackle is unlikely to be one that stops the RB from spinning/falling forward.

[Ravenalytics]

This relates to my problem with our coach. Play not to lose as we have in the past. Get a 1st down the game is over. Put in a jumbo package, Leach and Pierce and pound to the right. No, we get cute and lazy.

We haven't had great success with our jumbo package this year.

[Uli2001]

I heard on local Radio this morning that that was a comment Harbaugh made after the game regarding the 3rd and 2 with 2 minutes left. He said the call was a pass and if Joe couldn't make a sure completion, he was to take a sack. I agree with the concept of no matter what, "Do Not Stop the Clock!"... But what the hell? Why do you a call a play that only has a 50% chance of success. If you need to gain 2 yards and need to keep the clock moving, just run the freaking ball.... If you have to call a pass play.. call a bootleg or something that at least puts the QB in position to try and run for a first down.

That is just a BS Stupid Shit call.

The problem is you should never have done out of the shotgun formation. If you are going to throw in that situation you have to do it from the I formation and a fake handoff. That might actually have worked. Using the shotgun simply makes no sense.

[Kevlar]

I thought it was a horrible call. Whats funny is everyone saw it coming. Just read the game thread. Cam is so dead set against doing something conventional that you know what he is going to do before he does it. 3 and 14? Screen pass! 3 and 2 when you need to run out the clock? Shotgun!

Handing the ball back to the opposing team without even trying? Come on, I know it was Leftwich and he is totally incompetent, but you are nursing a 3 point lead. A lead which was garnered off a miracle punt return. Certainly nothing the offense did last night was deserving of a W.

It won't be pretty when the Ravens go back to Houston in the playoffs. Hopefully they can eek out enough of these no scoring no trying wins to get a bye so they don't get bounced on wild card weekend.

[StingerNLG]

They're not going to catch Pitt napping when they line up in the shotgun!!! Should have lined up in running formation even if pass or sack was the call!

Draw play?

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[edgecrusher]

it makes sense, an incompletion stops the clock. What baffled me is Tomlin taking that time out

Wouldn't a running play have the same effect?

[Captain Silver]

We haven't had great success with our jumbo package this year.

Please remind me when we have used the unbalanced line or stuck in an extra lineman or even Ngata this year, because I sure as hell don't remember seeing it since McGahee and Le'ron McClain were here.

[JMUpurkfool]

Please remind me when we have used the unbalanced line or stuck in an extra lineman or even Ngata this year, because I sure as hell don't remember seeing it since McGahee and Le'ron McClain were here.

Here's one example...
http://russellstreetreport.com/heres...and-1-attempt/

According to FilmStudy, Jah Reid came in as an extra linemen for 8 plays at Cleveland. McKinnie came in as an extra linemen for four plays against Dallas, 2 plays in the home game against Cleveland, 1 play (above) against NE, 2 plays against Philly, and once against Cincy.

I'm all for bringing in some big bodies and letting Rice try to plow his way for a yard or two but we haven't had much success running in short yardage situations this year. I don't think we've had success throwing it either though.

[RavNMadMan]

Anyone else think a screen play (from a formation other than the shotgun) could have been called and might have worked in this situation?

[StingerNLG]

Wouldn't a running play have the same effect?

It was after the 2 minute warning. I think the design here was that the clock had already stopped. If you call a run, the play is over quicker, maybe you are at 1:20/1:25. Whereas with the sack Flacco was able to run the clock down to 1:12 before Baltimore called the time out before the punt.

It seemed to me, just my opinion of course, that this was all about maximum time off the clock. Yes, a run keeps the clock moving too, but gives the Steelers maybe up to 10 extra seconds on the clock.

[RavensQB]

It was after the 2 minute warning. I think the design here was that the clock had already stopped. If you call a run, the play is over quicker, maybe you are at 1:20/1:25. Whereas with the sack Flacco was able to run the clock down to 1:12 before Baltimore called the time out before the punt.

It seemed to me, just my opinion of course, that this was all about maximum time off the clock. Yes, a run keeps the clock moving too, but gives the Steelers maybe up to 10 extra seconds on the clock.

I would call that playing NOT to WIN.

1st down the game is OVER. Not a chance of some miracle play. Or like Tebow did to them in the playoffs. This team still LACKS the KILLER instinct. You think Billacheat and Skirt Brady would have even thought of something that fing stupid?

Hell John's Brother Jim was prolly shacking his head the same a Joe was in the huddle.

I think the reason Joe never signed this year is because CAM is still here. Now he will have the power to say. CAM goes I will sign. CAM stays FU.

[Ravenblue]

Ravens couldn't run to save their lives, so I have no problem with calling a pass. BUT NOT OUT THE SHOTGUN. At least line up in the I-Form or Jumbo and do a play action so the Steelers would have to think about what was going to happen. smh

Agree with this completely. The way we were running I don't disagree with calling a pass play. I think if we weren't in shotgun formation, the Steelers would have gone all out to stop the expected run and play action would likely have given Joe an easy completion and game over.

[phacts]

It was after the 2 minute warning. I think the design here was that the clock had already stopped. If you call a run, the play is over quicker, maybe you are at 1:20/1:25. Whereas with the sack Flacco was able to run the clock down to 1:12 before Baltimore called the time out before the punt.

It seemed to me, just my opinion of course, that this was all about maximum time off the clock. Yes, a run keeps the clock moving too, but gives the Steelers maybe up to 10 extra seconds on the clock.

This is the first semi-logical defense of that play call I've seen so far.

Still....

[B-more Ravor]

I would call that playing NOT to WIN.

1st down the game is OVER. Not a chance of some miracle play. Or like Tebow did to them in the playoffs. This team still LACKS the KILLER instinct. You think Billacheat and Skirt Brady would have even thought of something that fing stupid?

Hell John's Brother Jim was prolly shacking his head the same a Joe was in the huddle.

I think the reason Joe never signed this year is because CAM is still here. Now he will have the power to say. CAM goes I will sign. CAM stays FU.

Belichick and Brady wouldn't have thought twice about throwing it.

And Joe lobbied for the play. He wanted a pass play and felt that Rice would be open in the flat.

Funny thing is, had they run it and failed, many would be complaining that they hadn't been successful running all night and would say that they lacked the balls and KILLER instinct to throw it.

Personally, I would have run it, but if Joe is ever to become elite, he got to be able to make pays in that scenario. Also, as others have said, if you are going to throw there, I would have greatly preferred play action from under center.