My Flacco Theory

[alienrace]

LOL @ anyone thinking Joe is going to walk. He doesn't care what a few half-retarded fans say. He knows the organization is top notch, and they aren't going to just let him walk anyway

[Dade]

Good grief. If I'm Joe Flacco I'd say fuck this and let another team with a shitty QB sign me where the fan base actually appreciates me.

It still amazes me after all the crap quarterbacks that this city has had to endure that we have a winner and he gets shit on like this.

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You would think if any fan base would appreciate a good QB it would be this one. Do people really want to go back to suffering years of Eric Zeier, Jim Harbaugh, Tony Banks, Stoney Case, Scott Mitchell, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, Randall Cunningham, Jeff Blake, Chris Redman, Kyle Boller, Anthony Wright, Steve McNair and Troy Smith.

[RavensNTerps]

Perfect example.

Complete hyperbole.

Getting shit on?

The guy gets praised beyond belief on this board.

A little criticism and boom.

Do you really think the majority of the fan base doesn't appreciate him? Sure, there are some who are whacked out and say "he sucks" or whatever. Maybe that's just who people here.

Me? I see and hear FAR more people who love the guy.

PP

Thank you. I have never once blindly claimed that joe flacco "sucks" or demand he be benched or anything of that nature. Just pointing out the facts. He's an average QB in a league where nearly every team has a guy who can get the job done, thanks to Goodell's NFL pushing the offensive envelope far beyond where it needs to go (look no further than the Reed suspension and fine).

Guys like Flacco ten (even five) years ago were hard to come by. Now you are getting comparble production from pretty much anyone not named Matt Cassell or Blaine Gabbert. That may be hyperbole, but it isn't drastic hyperbole. Are the Ravens a significantly worse team this year with guys like Christian Ponder, Sam Bradford, Russell Wilson, Matt Schaub, or Andy Dalton at QB? No. That's where the issue arises. A few years ago it was hard to find a good QB. Now everyone seems to be getting at least serviceable production from the position. And at what point does the premium you have to pay become not worth it?

[RavensNTerps]

It's pointless, almost all of his posts here are about how Flacco is just average etc... It's as if he just wants to be proven right about it, as if he wants Flacco to fail so he can tell us he told us so. Guarantee he won't post for a while the next big game Flacco has, or he'll just pull some meaningless stats that nobody really cares about to try and suggest that his good performance was only because said team are terrible.

After 5 years I have been proven right about it. It isn't something I hope for. It's not like I don't want to have a top QB, as it goes, of which, by the way, there are only a few.

Brady, Brees, P Manning, Rodgers, maybe RG3 and Roethlisberger probably. That's really the list of dominant QBs. The bottom of the pile would be Cassell, Gabbert, whoever the Cardinals QB is in a given week, Sanchez, and maybe Tannehill and Weeden but certainly the jury is out on them. For all the QBs in between, pretty much go ahead and put them in a hat and pull one out. You'll get quality production from any of them if you give them good receivers, a good running game, and a good OL (which seems to be the criteria the Flacco-coddlers demand for him).

That's my point.

[Dade]

After 5 years I have been proven right about it. It isn't something I hope for. It's not like I don't want to have a top QB, as it goes, of which, by the way, there are only a few.

Brady, Brees, P Manning, Rodgers, maybe RG3 and Roethlisberger probably. That's really the list of dominant QBs. The bottom of the pile would be Cassell, Gabbert, whoever the Cardinals QB is in a given week, Sanchez, and maybe Tannehill and Weeden but certainly the jury is out on them. For all the QBs in between, pretty much go ahead and put them in a hat and pull one out. You'll get quality production from any of them if you give them good receivers, a good running game, and a good OL (which seems to be the criteria the Flacco-coddlers demand for him).

That's my point.

You just lost crediblity with me by listing RG3 as a top QB.

[ballhawk]

Flacco's struggles have come on the road. I think it is more of a product of a young offense and the growing pains that come along with that along with a below avg offensive line. Give it another year or two and i'll bet we have when of the better and more consistent units in the league. Joe is fine, his best is yet to come.

[srobert96]

My theory on Joe is that he has an inconsistent OC. Cam is inconsistent in his play calling and schemes. The entire offense is inconsistent. Rice is inconsistent. Maybe not to the extent that Joe is but that is only because the Ravens offensive philosophy has been conservative due to a great defense. Rice will go long stretches of getting little to no gain on runs just like Joe will go through rough patches. Cam just does not have a feel for play calling and becomes predictable. Rice is not nearly as productive as he could be with a good OC. There is no reason why the offense should not be like it was early in the year where Rice was ultra productive as well as Flacco. It is not all or nothing. Why on the road does the play calling go conservative? On the road it is like the middle of the field does not exist. It becomes run heavy as well relying on outs and dump offs. I just don't get it. The Ravens would rather win a war of attrition vs taking it to the opponent on offense. If I am Joe I don't sign a contract and make the Ravens franchise me. The only way I sign a long term contract is with a change at OC.

[leachisabeast]

My theory on Joe is that he has an inconsistent OC. Cam is inconsistent in his play calling and schemes. The entire offense is inconsistent. Rice is inconsistent. Maybe not to the extent that Joe is but that is only because the Ravens offensive philosophy has been conservative due to a great defense. Rice will go long stretches of getting little to no gain on runs just like Joe will go through rough patches. Cam just does not have a feel for play calling and becomes predictable. Rice is not nearly as productive as he could be with a good OC. There is no reason why the offense should not be like it was early in the year where Rice was ultra productive as well as Flacco. It is not all or nothing. Why on the road does the play calling go conservative? On the road it is like the middle of the field does not exist. It becomes run heavy as well relying on outs and dump offs. I just don't get it. The Ravens would rather win a war of attrition vs taking it to the opponent on offense. If I am Joe I don't sign a contract and make the Ravens franchise me. The only way I sign a long term contract is with a change at OC.

[bacchys]

How are "inconsistent" and "predictable" a combination?

Some of that I agree with. On the road, the middle of the field doesn't exist. The Steelers seem to be the only road opponent, however, against which we become "run heavy," as the usual criticism after a road loss (and sometimes a road win) is Cam didn't run Rice enough.

To me, the problem is he tries to run the Coryell backwards. That offense is designed to work off of the run. You pound the rock, and throw for first downs as needed. You force the defense to give you shots downfield, because if you're moving the ball with the run game and (fairly) short passes, they have to move up. Cam too often starts out with the bomb. That, in and of itself, wouldn't be too bad, but when it doesn't work he seems determined to keep at it until it does. Flacco doesn't have time to get into rhythm, and the pass rush doesn't respect the run or worry about quick passes on third down: we don't seem to have any in our arsenal anymore.

When Kelly Washington was one of our receivers, we hit a few times on quick slants. I don't recall it ever gaining less than 5 yards. I don't see that play getting called anymore, even though we have guys who cause damage with the quick slant, especially if there's a missed/broken tackle.

I don't fault him as much for the lack of crossing routes, except when it looks like Flacco is getting good pass pro. Those are tough routes to defend. We've gnashed our teeth enough as other teams have made good yardage against our defense, after all. But those pages in the playbook seem to have gotten lost. Sometimes I wonder if Cameron hasn't caught whatever afflicted Cavanaugh: if a play works really well, he'll never do it again...

[purplepoe]

Whatever. Reason people have to run to his defense is because someone is calling him overrated or not good. Sorry, but I listen to enough radio to know I'm right here.

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Whatever.

Of course there are people who go overboard.

Guess what. It happens in every freakin city!

As a whole, this town has embraced Flacco.

If anything, the national media are the ones who criticize him more.

You and I both know talk radio is a haven for the whiners and complainers.

But in no way does it represent anything more than a small segment of the fan base.

PP

[The Excellector]

Huh?

Brees didn't win a SB with Cam. He won it in Sean Payton's offense...which is COMPLETELY different than Cam's.

And Rivers was good, but didn't experience his best play until after Cam left.

When I saw that post, Wicked, I was thinking the same thing. To be honest, Joe's performances under Cam are on par with, if not better than what Brees and Rivers did under Cam.

[The Excellector]

So what?

There is a very legitmate argument to be made that Flacco is indeed an average QB. Personally, I think he's a slightly above average QB but don't go crazy if someone thinks he's average. However, the furor it's met with around here is easy to see.

What is annoying is this notion that it's always someone else's fault when the offense looks bad yet all Joe when it goes well.

Hell, even when it goes well there are posters who will still rip Cameron and say Joe did it despite the offensive gameplan.

Most criticism of Flacco is met with an outrageous amount of defensiveness IMO.

Just what I see.

PP

When you have the likes of Greg Cosell, Phil Simms and Ron Jaworski, heralding Joe's ability to achieve as much as he has under such an offensive system with archaic administration, with plenty of logic to back up their views..................

[The Excellector]

You would think if any fan base would appreciate a good QB it would be this one. Do people really want to go back to suffering years of Eric Zeier, Jim Harbaugh, Tony Banks, Stoney Case, Scott Mitchell, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, Randall Cunningham, Jeff Blake, Chris Redman, Kyle Boller, Anthony Wright, Steve McNair and Troy Smith.

Oh no! That's way too many suck ass names to read at once.

[HoustonRaven]

Whatever. Reason people have to run to his defense is because someone is calling him overrated or not good. Sorry, but I listen to enough radio to know I'm right here.

I think PP is commenting on the reaction here and not on sports talk radio.

And I agree with him to an extent. The fans opinions of Flacco do seem to be polarizing as to his level of play.

I wouldn't call him average but there is a body of work (this season) that supports the claim.

[The Excellector]

I think PP is commenting on the reaction here and not on sports talk radio.

And I agree with him to an extent. The fans opinions of Flacco do seem to be polarizing as to his level of play.

I wouldn't call him average but there is a body of work (this season) that supports the claim.

I understand the sentiment from PurplePoe and I'll admit that I am one of the posters who is sensitive about Flacco. However, I don't see the body of work. What has he accomplished that an average QB accomplishes?

[HoustonRaven]

I understand the sentiment from PurplePoe and I'll admit that I am one of the posters who is sensitive about Flacco. However, I don't see the body of work. What has he accomplished that an average QB accomplishes?

I was referring to his body of work this season, not his career overall.

This is not his best year statistically. Not even his second best (so far).

[purplepoe]

All you have to do is look at a measured criticism of Flacco and the visceral reaction it illicits.

Seriously, just look at this thread.

PP

[The Excellector]

I was referring to his body of work this season, not his career overall.

This is not his best year statistically. Not even his second best (so far).

But doesn't that sound more like when they tried to say Flacco was on par with Sanchez, because Sanchez' best season equaled Flacco's worst season? Aren't those rather strong lengths to go to for argument sake?

[The Excellector]

All you have to do is look at a measured criticism of Flacco and the visceral reaction it illicits.

Seriously, just look at this thread.

PP

I already admitted that man. I'm just saying that I don't see how the man is just some average QB and that any old average NFL QB could do what he does.

[HoustonRaven]

But doesn't that sound more like when they tried to say Flacco was on par with Sanchez, because Sanchez' best season equaled Flacco's worst season? Aren't those rather strong lengths to go to for argument sake?

Huh?

I don't who "they" are, and I've never heard that comparison before.