Ravens have the best dropped passes rate in the league

**Ravenalytics** · 11-22-2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

And i already said the data is wrong when they say boldin has one and had 2-3 in one game. Wish to take pff as gospel youre entitled. I dont. They could have just as easily missed or counted one another way. Its opinion as to whats catchable and whats not. Watching other teams. Were average imo. Thats a good thing when we were so bad last year.

If you read the article they define a drop as a ball that is reasonable to catch for the receiver - they don't go by the official game book, I think. It's possible those drops didn't meet their criteria.

**goldenelite28** · 11-22-2012, 04:51 PM

IMO it's garbage.

Drop count is a horrible statistic since no one can agree on what is a drop.
What is "Reasonable to catch"? Is that adjusted by the WR based on talent level? Has Calvin Johnson dropped 9 easy catches or 9 balls that he usually catches.
Also what is the WR can't get separation? Our problem is that our WRs get locked down too often so a lot the catches they have to make will be heavily contested.

**Terpsfan82** · 11-22-2012, 04:55 PM

Somehow I get the feeling that had the stats showed the Ravens last in the league in this statistic, there wouldn't be as many fans questioning the validity of them.

**Haloti92** · 11-22-2012, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Why can't I ask you to show why our drops aren't any different when you made that claim and the OP started this thread, based on that claim?

There is an old football saying amongst WRs that if you get two hands on it, you need to catch it. PFF has decided to make it's own rule and some are trying to use this new idea of a drop to justify this claim that the Ravens don't deal with more drops than most teams around the league, or that they are not impacted similarly. That fails to go into when the drop takes place, what point of the game, etc. You can't just take that out and put together a claim, because those are elements of the game of football itself, that can't be measured.

It's like measuring a sack, going up against Oneil Cousins, on first and five, the same as a sack going up against Joe Thomas on third and long.

The same reason you can't claim that the Ravens play with special footballs then when challenged about the claim respond with "prove the footballs being used in Ravens games are the same as footballs in all the other games."

Doesn't matter about old rules or not. What matters is that there is no evidence whatsoever that our WRs drop more balls than others. None. In fact, the evidence shows they drop less, but conveniently you claim the evidence is tainted. What evidence do you provide that the inconvenient (to you) evidence is tainted? None.

Your last sentence just means stats are subjective, which everyone has stipulated. It does not mean that subjective means one team gets screwed or helped more than others. For that to be believed, there needs to be an actual argument made with actual support. So far, none.

**Ravenalytics** · 11-22-2012, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by goldenelite28

IMO it's garbage.

Drop count is a horrible statistic since no one can agree on what is a drop.
What is "Reasonable to catch"? Is that adjusted by the WR based on talent level? Has Calvin Johnson dropped 9 easy catches or 9 balls that he usually catches.

It's not entirely clear, but I trust the guys at PFF would apply their definition uniformly across all the plays they reviewed, so we're back to even playing field basically.

Also what is the WR can't get separation? Our problem is that our WRs get locked down too often so a lot the catches they have to make will be heavily contested.

I agree, but this is a separate issue.

**goldenelite28** · 11-23-2012, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

It's not entirely clear, but I trust the guys at PFF would apply their definition uniformly across all the plays they reviewed, so we're back to even playing field basically.

I'll admit I'm slightly biased since I never use PFF, but I find any statistic that has to be labeled as "reasonable" to be flawed.
My whole idea on what is reasonable could be very different from your idea. Some think that anytime a WR can get two hands on a pass it should be caught.
I'm just not comfortable with it.

I agree, but this is a separate issue.

Eh I'm not so sure it is.
For example this very article says that QBs with a low drop % have no excuse. I saw Boldin drop multiple passes in the KC game. If Boldin cannot gain enough separation to have many "reasonable catch" scenarios then all his drops might not get counted by this guy. He isn't just laying out stats for general information. Instead he is using flawed numbers to build a case for which QB has excuses for a bad completion % and which does not.
I know the Boldin example makes me sound like a homer, but I would expand that around the league. How many drops are not getting counted? Why would he not record the total number of drops and then separate those which he deems are "catchable"?
WRs in this league can make ridiculous catches every week so IMO a catchable ball is one that the WR can get his hands on. It might be very hard or nearly impossible to catch, but it is still catchable.

**The Excellector** · 11-23-2012, 05:14 PM

When they list Boldin as only having one drop, when we all saw him have three in the first quarter of the KC game, that's all the evidence I need to figure out that PFF sucks. I know that much.

**leachisabeast** · 11-23-2012, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

When they list Boldin as only having one drop, when we all saw him have three in the first quarter of the KC game, that's all the evidence I need to figure out that PFF sucks. I know that much.

You have still not come up with an argument as to PFF using the same data and premise to what a drop pass really is to all other teams too. So your basically now saying that PFF are pro Ravens and dislike other teams and mark them down as drops more often than for us? It doesn't matter if Boldin had 3 dropped passes against KC, if PFF didn't mark them down as drop balls, then that's not what they class as a dropped pass. They will be doing that for every other team in the league, and we still come out pretty high.

**Haloti92** · 11-23-2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

You have still not come up with an argument as to PFF using the same data and premise to what a drop pass really is to all other teams too. So your basically now saying that PFF are pro Ravens and dislike other teams and mark them down as drops more often than for us? It doesn't matter if Boldin had 3 dropped passes against KC, if PFF didn't mark them down as drop balls, then that's not what they class as a dropped pass. They will be doing that for every other team in the league, and we still come out pretty high.

If he doesn't understand the premise of what you are saying after the first 4 times it has been explained, I don't think the fifth time will be the charm.

But what you say is completely correct, of course.