It appears gamblers and early linemakers believe BR may play in Baltimore

**Filmstudy** · 11-23-2012, 02:05 PM

The Ravens are currently -6.5 for that game on one online book.

Since the Ravens were -3.5 in Pit I would have expected more than -6.5 in Baltimore. Traditionalists might say -9.5, but the Ravens sertainly could try to win by the same method as Sunday night.

More lines, more information after Sunday's games will give us a clearer picture, but it looks to me like that line says there is a chance BR will play. Perhaps 25-40%.

**rharris1986** · 11-23-2012, 02:35 PM

I can't conceive of any licensed medical doctor clearing Ben to play an NFL football game only 21 days after that type of injury. Losing a football game is one thing - puncturing your aorta with a rib whose attachment point has already been weakened by a previous injury is a risk that a new father is not going to take. Ben the rapist might. Ben the father will not.

**NC Raven** · 11-23-2012, 03:26 PM

Ben's not too bright. And the steelers had no problem playing Ryan Clark with 2 concussions in 3 weeks. Other than concussions is there any actual NFL rule about having to be medically cleared to play? I always thought they could play if they felt like it and doctors had no authority to ban them from playing. Again, other than as per the new concussion protocols. At least that's what I always thought. Anyone actually know?

**rharris1986** · 11-23-2012, 03:50 PM

Whether or not there's a rule - put yourself in the position of the team doctor (or more importantly Ben's doctors). Mrs Ben is going to ask Doc, is it OK for him to play. What do you think his doctor is going to tell her - "sure, three weeks is all Ben needs to recover from this rare and particularly dangerous rib injury, and I'm almost certain that the ligament is sufficiently healed and can almost absolutely guarantee that it won't puncture his aorta if he gets hit again - but please make sure you pay my bill before Sunday's Ravens game!" Its going to be some time before Ben sees the field again.

**RavensDomination** · 11-23-2012, 04:13 PM

From near death to playing in 3 weeks. Yup, sounds like Roethlisberger injury.

**DrUnk** · 11-23-2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by RavensDomination

From near death to playing in 3 weeks. Yup, sounds like Roethlisberger injury.

Thinking the same thing.

**Haloti92** · 11-23-2012, 04:46 PM

I think the line indicates some chance Ben will play but I also think that the -3.5 line itself from the first game isn't a good starting point (to reverse the 3 point homefield and adjust by 6). This is because the game has been played. And while we won by 3 (suggesting the line was close to correct), it was a weak "win by 3." We weren't up by 10 and allowed a prevent TD, etc, we didn't score on offense but instead by flukish/random ST return, etc. Plus there is more than a point difference between -3.5 and -2.5, the extra half point they made us give above a FG in the first game suggests a line much closer to 4 than 3.

While I think they are including some chance of Ben playing I wouldn't necessarily conclude it was all that high or even 50%.

That said, if Ben doesn't play, I like the Ravens -6.5, but if it becomes apparent there is no chance he will play that line will move to the other side of 7.

**leachisabeast** · 11-23-2012, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

I think the line indicates some chance Ben will play but I also think that the -3.5 line itself from the first game isn't a good starting point (to reverse the 3 point homefield and adjust by 6). This is because the game has been played. And while we won by 3 (suggesting the line was close to correct), it was a weak "win by 3." We weren't up by 10 and allowed a prevent TD, etc, we didn't score on offense but instead by flukish/random ST return, etc. Plus there is more than a point difference between -3.5 and -2.5, the extra half point they made us give above a FG in the first game suggests a line much closer to 4 than 3.

While I think they are including some chance of Ben playing I wouldn't necessarily conclude it was all that high or even 50%.

That said, if Ben doesn't play, I like -6.5, and if it becomes apparent there is no chance he will play that line will move to the other side of 7.

Don't see how a return TD from a punt is at all "fluky", it's one of the hardest things you can do.

**The Fanatic** · 11-23-2012, 04:49 PM

I took this off a Steelers site/message board

"CBS' Jason La Canfora reports Ben Roethlisberger (ribs, shoulder) is "expected back" for Week 13.
According to La Canfora, it's not "out of the question" that Roethlisberger could dress as an emergency quarterback for Week 12. Charlie Batch will start against the Browns, but it's clear Roethlisberger is making steady progress. He shed his sling on Wednesday. Considering the magnitude of next week's game against Baltimore, we expect Big Ben to be back."

Now I'm no doctor and have no training in medical evaluation, but the way this injury was described, and how potentially dangerous it could be....even life threatening, I find this hard to believe if in fact the injury is as serious as was reported.

Just because he may feel better (drugs and therapy will do that), doesn't mean internally it is healthy enough to withstand a potential severe blow.

I find it hard to believe that any sane doctor would give him the medical clearance to subject himself to a potential life altering or ending situation if that injury was in fact as serious as has been reported regardless of how Rothlisberger says he feels.

I don't think the NFL has any rules regarding medical clearance on injurys other then the concussion stuff, but if they don't, then maybe they should.
If some doctor clears him to play because he feels better, and he takes the right kind of hit and goes down permanently the NFL will have to bare that blood on its hands.
This ain't exactly a broken bone in his foot or some of the other stuff guys force themselves to play with.

Suppose Haloti Ngata comes free up the middle and pile drives him into the ground (see Siragusa on Gannon) and he actually dies, then what?

Is this even fair to the rest of the league and its defensive players putting them at risk of potentially being the guy that has to live with killing another player by just doing what he is paid to do, and a freak accident happened because a player and potentially a doctor were too over zealous to rush a player back into action because he was feeling better?

I don't know man.

**JoeCool5** · 11-23-2012, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by RavensDomination

From near death to playing in 3 weeks. Yup, sounds like Roethlisberger injury.

Well put. He's a drama queen bitch who wanted to see his stupid kid being born. One day after the birth his sling mysteriously came off!! He knew what he was doing.

**CRZA938** · 11-23-2012, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by JoeCool5

He's a drama queen bitch who wanted to see his stupid kid being born.

A bit harsh, no?

**Haloti92** · 11-23-2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Don't see how a return TD from a punt is at all "fluky", it's one of the hardest things you can do.

Why is difficulty and "flukiness" mutually exclusive to you?

**NC Raven** · 11-23-2012, 05:45 PM

I doubt very much a doctor would "clear" him to play any more than any doctor probably ever told Ed Reed "nerve impingement in your neck? No problem. Sure you're fine to play NFL football."

What Bens doctor will do is tell him he has a X% chance of injury or death if he plays. Then Tomlin will have the trainer rig up some kind of pad and Ben will accept the risk and he will play.

In short, there are probably NO doctors who would ever recommend playing NFL football with an injury. Seems to me it's entirely up to the player. All the doctor can do is give an opinion, he can't intervene. How many of us do everything our doctors tell us? Not many....

**leachisabeast** · 11-23-2012, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

Why is difficulty and "flukiness" mutually exclusive to you?

To me flukey means lucky or something that wont happen again. That was all skill and very good blocking by the ST unit, as well as good vision by Jacoby, you cannot overlook special teams and just assume that any big play that happens on ST's is just a fluky or a lucky play.

Jacoby dropped a ball on a punt return in our divisional game against the Texans which could very well have lost the Texans a shot at playing the AFCCG. The same can be said about the 49ers in the NFCCG against the Giants, where a ST mistake cost them the chance of playing in the SB.

The players should not apologize for winning tight games making big plays on special teams to decide the difference in a game.

**leachisabeast** · 11-23-2012, 05:53 PM

And if Jen plays in this one, the Steelers should be investigated for this. A life threatening injury should put you out of action for at least 6 weeks IMO. If Jen plays and comes out fully healthy, the injury is obviously greatly exaggerated. Jen has had a history of exaggerating his injuries, but not to this magnitude. This isn't a rotator cuff tear, or a high ankle sprain, this was reported as a fucking internal injury that could damage vital organs.

**4G63** · 11-23-2012, 06:32 PM

Its either that the injury was embellished upon by Ben and/or his doctor(s) or its a serious injury and Ben is a fucking idiot for coming back too soon.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-23-2012, 07:05 PM

He's been listed as officially out this week.

**Ravenswintitle** · 11-23-2012, 07:09 PM

I hope he plays and I bet a lot of the defensive guys do too

**cealex1223** · 11-23-2012, 09:17 PM

You could put a Rec team out there in Steeler uniforms and the game would be decided by 3 points or less. Its how this series goes, most games very close no matter the circumstances.

**Haloti92** · 11-23-2012, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

To me flukey means lucky or something that wont happen again. That was all skill and very good blocking by the ST unit, as well as good vision by Jacoby, you cannot overlook special teams and just assume that any big play that happens on ST's is just a fluky or a lucky play.

Jacoby dropped a ball on a punt return in our divisional game against the Texans which could very well have lost the Texans a shot at playing the AFCCG. The same can be said about the 49ers in the NFCCG against the Giants, where a ST mistake cost them the chance of playing in the SB.

The players should not apologize for winning tight games making big plays on special teams to decide the difference in a game.

It is "luck" in the sense that the same high skilled kick return team will return dozens and dozens of kicks and score on a handful at absolute most. It is "luck" in the sense the defense reacted the way they did instead of a different way which would not have allowed that lane. You cannot "overlook" special teams, but you can't reliably count on any points from special teams each week. Check the betting odds on a kick return touchdown for any given game and you'll see what I mean.

As for those playoff special teams errors, are you saying that those were skill and therefore not flukes/luck? I am not sure what the point is unless you are saying that special teams plays, or turnovers, etc, can affect the outcome. If that is your point, I agree, and have not said anything to the contrary.

My original point was that our offense didn't score any TDs. If Vegas had been told that our offense would score no TDs and 2 FGs (which they did), then Vegas would not have factored in a ST or Def TD and made the line Balt -3.5; we would have been slight underdogs or maybe a pick 'em if they gave partial points based on some percentage chance of a ST or Def TD. My whole point had to do with the -3.5 line.