Is a Lombardi every 12 seasons enough?

lombardi-gras

Last night I posted a poll on our home page that asked: “If the Ravens were to win a Super Bowl every 12 years is that acceptable?”

As of this writing 62% believe that such a pace is unacceptable.

That’s pretty interesting.

(You can vote on the home page, bottom right corner)

The Pittsburgh Steelers – who as you are all too often reminded by escapees of Pennsyltucky – have 6 in their 80 years of existence, the most of any team. That’s one every 13 1/3 years.

In the salary cap era, it’s very difficult to be a playoff team each year. John Harbaugh is 5 for 5 but 2013 might be his biggest challenge. A Super Bowl Championship artificially elevates the value of a team’s free agents and attrition is often higher than the usual 20-25%.

Joe Flacco’s free agent status certainly doesn’t help the situation, particularly when the cap is going up by only 2.8%.

Let’s also keep in mind that Super Bowl winners have won only 1 playoff game the following season since 2005. Perhaps fans would be wise to temper their expectations and view 2013 as a year of adjustment.

Back to Joe Flacco (I know, again…), I keep hearing how the Ravens should just pay the man! I agree but what’s that number?

It is completely unrealistic to think that his last 5 games are indicative of what to consistently expect going forward. Folks really need to consider his entire body of work – clearly the Ravens are. Ozzie Newsome has publicly admitted as much.

Those who are Wacko for Flacco will remind you of his playoff record – and clearly it is impressive. But how soon they forget that he was rather anemic during his first two postseasons in 2008 and 2009 when his QB Rating was an anemic (and Bolleresque) 46.5 with 1 TD and 6 INT’s over the course of 5 playoff games.

Yes they were 3-2 during those games.

Should the Ravens thank Joe for those?

Sure he was a winner in the playoffs but let’s be honest here, he was along for the ride in those games.

I’m not trying to beat the guy up…just trying to consider his complete body of work to assess his market value. To pay him on 6 games without Cam Cameron (let’s not forget the Denver loss at home when Flaccoing had a different meaning) and believe that you can assess value on those 6 games and ignore the 87 others is just nuts!

Hence the difficulty in signing him…

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About Tony Lombardi

Tony Lombardi
Tony is 24x7 Networks, LLC's founder (the parent of EutawStreetReport.com and RussellStreetReport.com) His work has been featured on various sports websites and he is a regular guest on 105.7 The Fan. A diehard Fab Four fan, Tony is a frustrated musician who thinks beating on the steering wheel is akin...more

28 Raves on “Is a Lombardi every 12 seasons enough?

  1. Derek ArnoldDerek Arnold on said:

    While it was 12 years between #1 and #2 (absolutely acceptable, in my eyes), the Ravens have only been a team for 17 years total. So that’s one Super Bowl win every 8.5 years – even MORE acceptable.

    We’re spoiled.

  2. gweeto on said:

    Agreed with first comment,,2 in 17 years is impressive.Yea Joe deserves it.Time for everybody to renegotiate to stay on a winning team.Ed reed needs to look in the mirror and ask is grass greener elsewhere?.Seems like No other team goes through this.Losing good players all the time.Crazy.

  3. purpleneons on said:

    Ravens clearly have painted themselves into a corner here and no one seems to point that out, Flacco has ALL the leverage in this negotiation and I don’t see him giving a hometown discount to the Ravens.

    Ravens have shot themselves in the foot by waiting until the very last moment to get him signed. They gambled stringing this out and they lost and now they are going to pay for the lack of foresight in getting Flacco signed to an extension LAST year. Would have been cheaper an would have allowed them to structure contract to be cap friendly.

    Thats all gone now, Ravens gave it away by waiting. They will now pay top dollar and structure contract more in line with what Flacco wants, which is not a cap friendly structure for the Ravens

    Ravens have done an incredible job over the years, but they have mishandled this negotiation, took a big gamble by waiting to long to get it done. I have a hard time believing they hadn’t penciled in Joe as the starter for the next 6-8 years, they had no intention of letting him go, so why not get him signed to an extension last year if Ravens are convinced he’s the man?

    Ravens have bumbled this one and it will hurt the team.

    • Tyler on said:

      They were negotiating last offseason and were close to getting a deal that would have put Joe in the top 5 paid in the league. Are you saying that before this season Joe was worthy of more than that? I definitely would not say that.

      Joe is the one who took the big gamble waiting until after the season. Although he does have regular season inconsistencies, it’s hard to argue the fact that when the lights are shining brightest, Joe is at his best. He deserves a 120+ million dollar contract. We’re not only assessing him for what he’s worth now, but what he will be worth in the future. Soon after we removed Cameron from the offense, Joe was lights out. That’s something that is hard to ignore. He was the best player on the field on any team at any position this entire postseason. After watching his postseason run I’d say he’s a top 5 QB behind Rodgers, Brees, Manning, and Brady, plus he’s only improving. Pay the man.

  4. Zeedragon on said:

    As the “Superbowl” has only been in existence since the 1966 season, one could say the Steelers % would be every 7.6 years, within the “SuperBowl years”. Still, we are on the right track !

    And to think, I almost married a Steelers fan…..

    • KenMacLaughlin on said:

      True. I thought the same thing when I read that. However, they won 0 NFL Championships in the pre-Super Bowl years. So I’m giving his math a pass. His point remains the same.

  5. Nick on said:

    you’re underestimating how bad Cam really was. not saying Flacco deserves top dollar but his Cam-body of work should be largely ignored.

  6. Bart on said:

    Twice in twelve years is fine with me. That’s in the upper tier of organizations. Also, I think Harbaugh & the rest of the Raven’s organization should get most of the credit for the super bowl wins. Yes Flacco was cool under pressure but that took five years of losing in the playoffs. I say offer him his 15 million/year. If that’s not good enough then start over with a new QB. Don’t gut the team by giving this guy 17% of the salary cap(20mil). No way. We have an excellent coach & organization. Don’t blow it by giving away the store!

  7. Voice of Reason on said:

    One thing I want to point out: the “great NFL franchise” that we apparently “stole” has never even been to a Super Bowl in its history, despite being around since Super Bowl 1. I just find it interesting how their fans and the guys on ESPN make it out like they’re right up there with the Cowboys, Packers, and Steelers in terms of all-time great franchises.

    In terms of our success, a Super Bowl ratios of 1 per 8-10 years is great, but I’d like to see some of them bunched up together. It’s a pretty big buzzkill not having a dominant era. I’d take 20-30 years of no SB’s for 3 in 7-8 years.

  8. Josh on said:

    While I agree with Ozzie when he says he has to look at Joe’s entire body of work, I think most intelligent fans agree that the only thing that matters is winning. And Joe wins. Don’t give me the “great defense” argument if you are against Joe. Last I checked, we were not a perennial playoff team before he arrived. And before he arrived, Ray, Ed, Sizzle and Co. were a lot younger!! Lastly, for the umpteenth time (I will say this until I am blue in the face), it is clear Joe was held back by Cameron. Brees and Rivers got better when Cameron left them. Joe is too talented and diligent not to do the same. If the Giants game and playoffs from this year are any indication, he will improve dramatically moving forward.

    • Tony LombardiTony Lombardi on said:

      No argument on Cameron holding Joe back. But he was rather abysmal in the playoffs his first 2 seasons and as for all of those defensive players getting long in the tooth, perhaps but it doesn’t mean they weren’t productive. Here are the Ravens defensive rankings from 2008-2011:

      2011: 3rd
      2010: 10th
      2009: 3rd
      2008: 2nd

        • Tony LombardiTony Lombardi on said:

          But Joe won those games right? Not the defense or the ball control rushing attack which Cameron did have something to do with.

          You can’t have it both ways.

          • Josh on said:

            I didn’t say Joe won those games. I agree he didn’t play well in some of those playoff games, particularly at Indy in ’09. But during that game, the TV cameras panned to the sidelines and we all saw Joe yelling “F*ck you!” to Cameron. Again, he was held back and was still young in ’09. If we pay him big money (which we will anyway), it will be well-deserved because if the end of this season was any indication, we should have a top offense moving forward.

  9. elland on said:

    Yeah no love for Joe, despite our worst defense since 96-98.

    Who dump their SB winning QB.. well Ravens obviously (Dilfer).. who?

    Yeah and btw we need to dump Harbaugh too, he is just a ST-coach, and Ozzie his old and keep dreaming.

    Whatfore.. Are we going to dump Joe for what? Resigning.. Ed, Ellerbe, Kruger, McKinnie and Cary Williams… and keeping Leach, Bobby Williams, Birk, Rice, Boldin and Jacoby. sigh!

  10. Greg on said:

    What I think is greatly in Joe’s favor is that 1) he won the Super Bowl when our D was clearly NOT dominant as it was the four previous years. We were something like 20th in that neighborhood. We overcame Denver which was easily our biggest win I feel given the things to overcome

    2) In 2011 he put us in position to go to the SB again.

    I think Joe was developing in 08 and 09 and honestly, had it not been Cam and someone willing to let him air it out, maybe he would have been more impressive.

    In my estimation Joe doesn’t get enough credit for those wins we eked out 20-17 and the like where he hits a few huge deep or outside the number throws that other QBs cant make. If you understand our offense, you realize Joe really is a special talent who is asked to do so much more than other Qbs. Alex Smith can’t even make 50% of the throws #5 makes. I’m definitely a buyer of Joe being worth 19M a year.

  11. Stephens Dempsey on said:

    I believe the Ravens are not in a corner, if they follow their tradition they will consider the whole team with their offer and they are willing to let him walk if any team is dumb enough to give up two 1st round picks for him and overwhelm their salary cap for years. We have a team and we need a quarterback that will support that, I believe Joe will do that but Lintz may screw this up. How long will Joe survive without the right tools around him? Long term contract he gets hurt the first year, where will the Ravens be if it isn’t the right deal for the team?

    • Bruce_Almty on said:

      Agree; take the 1st round picks if Joe and Joe won’t be reasonable. An NFL team is not made up of 1 100million dollar baby and 21 nobodies. Once the other teams paid their “elite” QBs the huge salaries their teams became losers.

  12. JohnJohnson on said:

    Flacco is still being underestimated, even by Ravens fans. Flacco understands football. His arm strength allows him to be in constant attack mode. Screw completion percentage, a high-completion percentage passing game means you’re likely putting yourself in a lot of third down situations. Cam Cameron developed Flacco well, but then hampered him by failing to get plays in on time and failing to effectively incorporate the insights of players and coaches. In an effective offense, he made big play after big play because we weren’t PREDICTABLE.

    We haven’t seen the best of Flacco, he will have a career year by far in 2013. And then, finally, I hope that people will start to realize his sheer potential.

  13. Mark on said:

    You want to take away the 3-2 mark from Flacco’s post season record. That is fin. That leaves him 6-2, Super Bowl winning MVP QB. What you get from Joe is an average to above average QB that wins. Marino has got stats and no SB. Brees and Manning have stats and 1 ring. I believe Flacco will move to above average and great over the next 6 years. Now my question is what is a great SB winning QB worth in 3-4 years?Paying Joe tops today, leaves him in 3 or 4 spot in 3 years. About where he belongs until proven differently. He is on the up swing, Brady, Brees and Manning sliding into retirement.

  14. Bruce_Almty on said:

    If the Ravens pay Joe top QB money they will end up just like NE, NO, GB, NYG, LOSERS. The Ravens will be QB rich and player poor. All the above teams have wonderful offenses but we won the SB because of the goal-line stand by our defense.
    Pay Joe his $120m and we’ll be winners but ultimately we’ll be losers.

  15. Donta on said:

    Lombardi what are you saying? They should let another team sign Joe Flacco because another team will give him the money. If he leaves then the Ravens are stuck again looking for a QB can Baltimore really deal with that again? Probably not. The Ravens would be stupid to let a franchise QB walk and then stuck trying to find another one because they did not want to pay this one. They will most likely sign him and you will be upset.

      • Donta on said:

        Letting him go would set the franchise back probably for a few years I know that its not MLB but to win on a regular basis you need a good QB its the most important position. Ask Brian Billick.

          • Donta on said:

            Not a Flacco fan huh? I think that its more of the market. If they agree with you they should let him walk and start all over at QB and keep drafting and bringing in free agent QB`s until they get another one. Matt Ryan will get same type of money by the way and he probably does not deserve it either but none do IMO.

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