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More Takes on Lamar & His Replacement

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Yesterday I posted a piece about Lamar Jackson, suggesting the manner in which the Ravens should handle his contract situation in 2023. The article sparked a lot of debate and we’ve enjoyed the comments in the article, along with those I’ve received in private messages and texts and also on social media. I’d like to engage a few of the more interesting thoughts.

A True No. 1 WR Won’t Matter

Some are of the opinion that the Ravens passing offense and offensive philosophy is so primitive that:

1) It doesn’t attract top-end veteran free agents; and

2) Even if the Ravens were to land one they’d find a way to waste his talents.

I get the concerns but let’s not forget that the Ravens organization is a very attractive one to players and their families given the winning and inviting culture that the club has carefully cultivated. That, coupled with the right money will land a No. 1 receiver. Thoughts that a receiver’s career takes a hit coming to Baltimore, given its current philosophical approach to offense, are legit from a long-term perspective. But isn’t it possible that with the right talent that philosophy is at least adjusted?

Players attract the attention of teams that can utilize their unique skillsets in a way that provides a boost in productivity to their specific team. For example, Matt Judon’s numbers weren’t as eye-opening in Baltimore as they are now in New England. Bill Belichick saw something in Judon that he could employ in a productive way and therefore, Judon’s skillset, and not necessarily his numbers, defined his market value to the Patriots. And he was paid handsomely. A veteran receiver who signs his second contract in Baltimore, will still have a market for his services after the conclusion of that second contract if the skillset remains intact, despite the expected decline in statistical productivity as a receiver in Baltimore.

As for the “why bother” approach to landing a No. 1, simply because the Ravens offense is philosophically flawed and the talents wouldn’t be utilized properly, that’s just a losing take. The winner in any NFL game eventually boils down to which side has taken advantage of an opponent’s weakness more convincingly. Teams spend their offseason addressing areas of weakness. The Ravens have a rather obvious weakness at WR and they’ve never sufficiently addressed the position in free agency. Sure, they’ve made player moves to acquire guys like Derrick Mason, Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith, Sr. and Mike Wallace – all fine players yet admittedly talents that were on the back-slope of their respective careers. It’s time to find a productive receiver who makes those around him better the way Roquan Smith has given a lift to the Ravens defense; the way wide receiver A.J. Brown has made a difference in the Philadelphia Eagles offense.

And if you’re concerned that Lamar could never employ such a talent in a way that delivers dividends on the investment, then you’re suggesting that the long-term outlook for Lamar is pretty much the same as the short view. In other words, he is who he is. But let’s be honest, the Ravens current approach to offense with Lamar is just not sustainable. The older Lamar gets the less effective he’ll be as a runner and the more likely injuries will continue to surface. He must develop as a passer for his own career longevity and, if the Ravens are ever going to be anything more than regular season winners yet postseason flunkies. To help him become that passer, part of the solution lies in more talent at WR. Without it, the passing game can’t improve. Without it, you may as well move on from Lamar.

Move Lamar Now

There are others who believe that now IS the time to move on from Lamar and to support such an opinion they’ll point to the way the Seattle Seahawks handled Russell Wilson. Could Pete Carroll have stuck with Wilson? Of course. Could they have invested resources to improve their offense by providing a better rushing attack complemented by an improved offensive line? Sure. But maybe Carroll knew what he had in Wilson and understood that this past offseason was the optimal time to test the market for his services. And they scored in a big way.

The Seahawks landed two No. 1 picks; two No. 2 picks; a fifth-round pick; tight end Noah Fant, quarterback Drew Lock and defensive end Shelby Harris, all in exchange for Wilson and the Seahawks 2022 fourth-round pick. That’s quite a haul. And to make the deal look even more advantageous to the Seahawks, Wilson’s heir apparent in Seattle, Geno Smith (3,433 passing yards/25 TD/8 INT/106. 8 passer rating), has clearly out-performed Wilson (2,805/11/6/85.0).

The concern for some is this – what if Lamar gets his No. 1 WR and gets a new coordinator who is a visionary in the passing game and the results are STILL the same? What does that do to his market value?

These thoughts and more are probably being debated at The Castle regularly. And I would think that for some in that building, there may be concerns that trading Lamar, regardless of the haul, is a risky proposition. What if Lamar is traded, wins Super Bowls (plural) with his new employer while the Ravens amount to nothing more than an early exit squad in January? How does that reflect on the coaching staff? The front office? No one wants their name attached to such a failure. It could impact careers and not in a flattering way.

Odds & Ends at The Castle & Around the NFL

Don’t know if you caught the Monday Night contest between the Cardinals and Patriots. That’s ok if you didn’t – Cardinals WR Marquise Brown wasn’t catching much either.

I bet on the Cardinals on Monday, taking the moneyline and the 2 points in two separate $20 using the FanDuel app. While I did lose those plays, I made up for it in-game by placing a few bets on the Cardinals, being mindful of their tendency to go for it on fourth down. Twice I bet on Cardinals drives ending in a turnover or turnover-on-downs and twice I was rewarded handsomely. It really does make the game more entertaining, even if the game is a dog.

I don’t wager much but what I have done is sign up for several apps, investing just $5 and getting as much as $200 in house money to play with. So far with each app, I’m still using house money. Give it a try but as always, please be responsible.

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Staying with the theme of catching, remember when former Ravens D-lineman Derek Wolfe was spotted carrying a bear on his back while he was allegedly rehabbing a hip and back? He fleeced the Ravens of millions and took advantage of the front office’s compassion for Wolfe who struggles with some personal demons. But judging from the look of this Tweet below, Derek is doing just fine these days. Check out the hysterical response from Will (@wearpurplepants), a regular contributor to our weekly GAMEDAY 411.

You are all aware of the frustrations the Ravens have experienced trying to complete an extension for Lamar Jackson without player representation. An agent serves as a buffer, one who understands value and fairness in contracts. Completing a deal without that buffer creates unnecessary challenges. But as they say, it is what it is – deal with it.

Another of the Ravens offseason challenges will be a way to figure out how to retain Roquan Smith, who like Lamar, has no agent.

The Ravens play at Cleveland on Saturday afternoon at 4:30. On the call for NFL Network will be Rich Eisen (PBP) and Kurt Warner (analyst). Warner has been a fair yet vocal critic of the Ravens passing concepts. Being assigned to this game, there’s little doubt that Kurt has been pouring over tape of the Ravens past few games and what he’s probably seen from their aerial attack, more than likely, has him reaching for Imodium A-D. It will be interesting to hear what the Hall of Fame quarterback has to say about the Ravens during the broadcast.

One of the plays that is likely to fall under Warner’s microscope is the hit that Tyler Huntley took from the Steelers Minkah Fitzpatrick.

Fitzpatrick is an excellent player, albeit one who gets a little overzealous, sometimes after the whistle. In the clip above, the All Pro safety seemingly has some bad intent in mind, other than finishing the tackle on a defenseless backup quarterback. What a strategic move given the Ravens short-handedness at the position during this game.

Tyler Huntley concussion

Huntley was a limited participant during practice on Tuesday and that is normally a good sign for a player coming out of concussion protocol. And it’s a good sign that Huntley will get the start v. the Browns.

One quarterback who will not return from injury is Kyler Murray.

Murray’s torn ACL is a huge setback, particularly for a quarterback who like Lamar, uses his legs as a vast weapon. How effective Murray will be in 2023 when he does return, presumably no earlier than mid-season, is anyone’s guess but it’s safe to say that it’s unrealistic to think he’ll be immediately as productive when he does take the field.

Fortunately for the Cardinals, Murray’s cap hit in 2023 is a modest $16M, so perhaps they can bring in a short-term hired gun to field a competitive team next season. That said, these developments in Arizona must have captured the attention of Ravens GM Eric DeCosta. Injuries can happen any time, but running quarterbacks are more susceptible to lost time and when that lost player is your franchise QB it puts tremendous pressure on the salary cap and challenges an organization’s ability to compete for a division title, the first goal of any season.

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah is a special player and one that captured my attention prior to the 2021 NFL Draft. Some scouts thought that he might be a tweener – a linebacker with the frame of a safety. But the former Golden Domer from Hampton, VA has been a nice chess piece for Browns defensive coordinator Joe Woods. Some believe that the Browns selection of Owusu-Koramoah was influenced by Lamar Jackson’s presence in the AFC North and when the two players have squared off, JOK has done a nice job shadowing Lamar.

Of course neither will be available on Saturday but Owusu-Koramoah could have been a big contributor to the Browns efforts to contain Huntley. It’s a significant blow to the Browns who field the league’s 22nd rush defense WITH Owusu-Koramoah.

Mike Leach

Mississippi State lost their beloved head football coach Mike Leach to a devastating heart attack this week. The accolades are pouring in as are the stories about this bigger-than-life personality. If you want to get to know Leach a bit more and laugh along to the antics that will become part of his legacy, just search his name on Twitter. Below is one of my favorite Mike Leach stories. Mike was a treasure. The 61-year-old Jackson, MS native will be greatly missed.

That was called a touchdown?

And Last But Not Least…

You’re all aware of the NFL’s attempt to broaden its fan base with the scheduling of international games. And it’s working. The number of Brits who have taken a liking to the NFL expands annually and the Ravens have been beneficiaries with the help of clubs such as UK Ravens.

This week Paul Davison shared with me a couple of pictures from a gathering of fans organized by Ben Mortimer and Shane Richmond in London at Moretown Bell. Among those in attendance was Rick Noppenburger, a Ravens season ticket holder and native Marylander. Also in attendance (and pictured) were Kris, Ian, Max and Becky. No last names were provided but if anyone can attach a name to a face, by all mean hit me up at **@ru*****************.com and I’ll make the edit.

Thanks for checking in everyone and enjoy your Wednesday!

UK Ravens

 

100 Responses

  1. Must agree to disagree relative to WRs not wanting to play here! No better example than Hollywood Brown who insisted on getting out from under this antiquated system! And for the umpteenth time, the only times it changed during Harbaugh’s tenure was following the FORCED firing of Cameron and the hiring of Kubiak without Harbaugh’s consent! As inconvenient as it may be to your narrative, those are incontrovertible ….FACTS!

    1. I think it more than “the umpteenth time”. Way more!

      So I’m curious, what’s the “narrative” that you’ve referenced?

      And as for Marquise Brown, he asked out because he wanted to go to a team where he could make some splash plays; to be part of an offense that is more dynamic in order to give him an opportunity to make more money once he becomes a free agent. I don’t blame him and I commend EDC for getting a first-round pick for the malcontent. So far, it looks like it’s working out better for the Ravens now that the pick became Tyler Linderbaum.

      But if the Ravens move on from Roman, do you really think that the Ravens wouldn’t bring in an OC with a more accomplished aerial attack and that a top WR given such changes would not consider the Ravens if the money was right? That a top WR would block a trade to the Ravens? And then that if said new OC and WR landed here, it still would result in little to no change in the passing game because Harbaugh is the HC?

      And if your answer to all that is “Yes”, do you really think that Steve Bisciotti would stand by and casually allow it to happen?

      1. Tony, speaking of things Bischotti would allow… I remember very clearly, several years ago, after another one of our flameouts Bischotti saying ” won’t allow them to fail again”.

        What we’ve been doing for the last decade doesn’t qualify as ” failing”?

          1. Fair enough Tony, but this organization supposedly has one of the top coaches in the league. And every year we hear about how clever we are and how we outsmart everybody else in the draft. How we always find “abdolute steals” and get A++ grades. So either our drafts have been grossly overrated… or our coaching staff is grossly overrated.

      2. The narrative is that the Ravens need a big time WR to solve their passing problems! And, if Roman is fired, does Harbaugh hire another Cameron, Caldwell, Trestman, or Mornhinwhig because that’s his history?! This problem has persisted for a long time! And, how do you explain their hiring Kubiak without even consulting Harbaugh? Obviously, their confidence in his ability to hire a quality OC is questionable! So, again, we can disagree without being disagreeable…..

  2. The trade of Brown for the pick for Linderbaum has the potential to be a HOF trade for EDC. The rookie is really balling out and put the pedal to the medal on the Stillers short arms an all.

  3. Boy I pray 8 leaves this god forsaken team ASAP. Never would I have thought I’d see a fanbase subject they’re 25 year old MVP to this level of criticism while pacifying and discounting the myriad issues on this team that were present even before he got here. The continued trope that “they built the team around him”…BS, they built it around what JH was comfortable with, running the ball. Not seeing Lamar as the the generational talent that he is, merely a cog that would maximize their run scheme and hamstringing the growth of his passing chops (which was far fetched in itself, given the team ethos). The good thing, he is just 25 and has plenty of time to get with a Kevin O’Connell or Daboll or another bright minded coach that can grow what’s been seen in flashes with JAGs, also rans and camp cast offs this team calls a WR corp….and when it happens, I’m going to laugh at this organization so much.

  4. As much as a I hate to think about this -I think Lamar will win many super bowls with a coach like Belichek who just knows how to win. It’s the whole program with the QB as the spear. Belichek is a no fear coach – Harbs is a “what is the best I can get” coach. I think this a two way street. Sure Lamar will take the money but he will want a legacy and he isn’t going to build one here at this rate. He is going to have to make a choice as well.

  5. Jackson should have taken that 5 yr/250M (133 M gauranteed) contract offer. That offer will not improve, because his play on the field doesn’t warrant a better offer.

    Hell, for all we know, Jackson has already played himself out of that offer anyway.

    1. He deserves 30 million a year today. Tag him. Give him a true WR1 and a true WR 2, the same O line and RBs, an OC who knows something and you’ll know in one year if he’s worth more. I doubt it.

  6. Since 2008 the Ravens have had the 4th highest win percentage in the NFL, tied with the Saints. The other 4 teams above them all had first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Since 2008 only 2 teams have won multiple Super Bowls. The Ravens have had 1 and except for a unfortunate drop, could have competed for a second. Most cities can only wish for that that level of excellence. Many of us are happy to have an accomplished head coach, staff and front office as well as one of the best owners in the NFL

    1. Then be content when Lamar is playing somewhere else and BAL wind up in QB purgatory…this league is a QB driven, pass happy league. You got a guy and have mismanaged him. Period.

      1. Trust and believe, a team will give him. 3-4 year deal for 200+ after these next two tags…though I don’t even think it gets there. He will be asking for a trade after this year…

      2. So you’re not a Ravens fan, you’re a Lamar fan. Team will be fine. If they have to move away from Lamar, they’ll get a lot of compensation in the form of high draft picks. Not worried at all about one of the best run franchises in the NFL.

        1. whatever helps you sleep at night, but the fact remains. It’s a QB driven league no matter how good a team is. The Ravens are about to lose theirs, and a lot of fans like you dismissing that fact will probably have sellers remorse at that point. Book it.

          1. It’s easy to sleep at night if you don’t worry about what a 25-year-old might do with his life. If he’s here great, if he’s not the Ravens will still have a team and I’ll be a fan.

        2. Lamar had an incredible year in 2019 when he took the league by storm before his abysmal performance in the playoffs! Since then, he and the offense have regressed! Do you have an explanation?

          1. I have some thoughts. But not having the benefit of reviewing coach’s film, knowing the play book, seeing practice every day, attending meetings with the rest of the offensive staff, knowing how defenses adjusted to him, among many other things, they’d just be thoughts. Am I wrong to assume you think you have the definitive answer?

          2. Without accepting your premise I have thoughts. Things like retirement of a HOF right guard, injury to a premier left tackle, injuries to running backs, adjustments by defensive coordinator. But without watching film, being in attendance and practice everyday, speaking to the other members of the offensive staff, and a host of other pieces of information, they’re just thoughts. Why do I feel you have a definitive answer.

                  1. The Ravens record is publically recorded and forms a sound basis for my opinion that they are one of the best run franchises in the NFL. Since you’ve never provided a shred of evidence that you have the sort of backgound and access the things I’ve mentioned, it think it is clear your OPINION is not based on any substantial factual record and is unconvincing.

                    Have a great day and if the Ravens cause you such angst, maybe find another team that will make you happier.

                    1. What’s Harbaugh’s full playoff record and where is that stand among his peers? Opinions should be informed by all the facts. not just cherry picked facts

                    2. Now do Shula, Parcels, Landry. Harbs winning pct in playoff is HOF stuff. Cherry picking a coach with the best QB in history is JV1 stuff.

                    3. Again, you’re entitled to your opinion and, in mine, Harbaugh is not in their class unless you want to count his preseason record which he astonishingly takes pride in!

                    4. Opinions come in many forms. Some are based on incontrovertible facts. Others are based on incomplete knowledge and derived from emotion. Mine are the former yours are the latter. You are terribly unconvincing.

                    5. Most of the playoff wins were when he fired his OC for incompetence. Also he had a typical quarterback and three decent WRs. Since 2018 he has lost 3 and won 1 playoff game. All three playoff games were lost in the same fashion. 9 people in the box, stop the run, and let Greg Roman and a mediocre passer beat you with the passing game. Results sp3ak for themselves

                    6. You and Harbaugh can thank Joe Flacco for that! Flacco won in spite of Harbaugh, not because of him! And, following that spectacular SB MVP win, Harbaugh turned Flacco into “check down” Joe, just as he’s done with Lamar! The only exception was when the FO hired Kubiak and his assistants without Harbaugh’s input or approval and Flacco had his most productive season……ever!

                    7. Another JV1 comment . If something bad happens it’s the fault of the coaches. If something good happens it’s the superhuman efforts of the player overcoming bad coaching.

                    8. This bears repeating. I put more thought into my morning constitutional then you put into anything you said in this thread.

                      If this is your view of the Ravens you should find another team. It will likely be one that’s not in the top five winning percentage over the last 15 years.

                    9. To the contrary it refers to your uninformed, unsupported jv-1 comments. Harbs will be here because he just signed an extension. The Ravens will have a strong run game and a good defense. If you don’t like those things you should probably move on to a different team and save yourself all this mental torture

                    10. FACT: They’ve made the playoffs 4 times in the last 8 years and are 1-3! Not exactly a great record when it counts most! You’re entitled to your OPINION, but if I agreed with it, then we’d both be…..wrong!

                1. Have you been watching the ravens for the last 5 years. Used to be exciting and limited in the playoffs . Now it’s not even exciting and playoffs. Did you say playoffs

                    1. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

                    2. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

                    3. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

                    4. Well you have to win in the regular season before you get to the playoff. after that well ask Andy Reid who’s got one Super Bowl with the best quarterback, Aaron Rodgers who has got one Super Bowl, Drew Brees and Sean Payton who have won Super Bowl, etc

                    1. 0k pick one play from Saturday’s game with the Browns, tell me what plays were on the offensive game plan after discussion with the offensive staff and been worked on in practice. Then tell me what defense the browns were in and what personnel they had on the field, and what play you would have called?

                    2. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

        3. I’m a die hard ravens fan. But I also see when talent is wasted. I hate seeing a talent like Lamar not get to a Super Bowl. And with this coaching staff he’s going nowhere

      3. Wasted 5 years of a cheap rookie contract MVP who can pass and run. Biggest waste of talent EVER in the NFL. If I’m Lamar I take a discount to go somewhere else (unless there is a change at OC)

    2. ill just assume you saw that Browns game, so I’ll let you stew on that well run organization and what Lamar means to it. Good day…

        1. You sound like Uncle Rico. Who cares what you did a decade ago. What are you doing now? I swear you old heads cling to the past so hard, the present and future smack you in the face and get completely lost.

            1. Guess what. I am a ravens fan and I like winning records but I hate losing in the playoffs and I hate wasting talent.

              Yes I compare the ravens to better teams, not perennial losers like the jets or the browns.

              Keep saying how good the ravens fans have it. Since the superbowl the only season when I thought we were going somewhere was 2014 (Kubiak, losing to the cheaters in the ALDG). Since then, we KNOW what we can do in the playoffs against teams that can put 14 or 17 points on us

        2. Since Lamar / Roman we are 0.25 in the playoffs with a c heap MVP on his rookie contract, an excellent O-line, an excellent run game and a very good defense (except last year with injuries). They wasted the rookie contract of Lamar by zagging with Roman instead of zigging with any OC who knows when and how to pass

          I don’t care about the regular season when we all know what happens if and when we get to the playoffs. 9 men in the box, game over. Happened against the chargers after 2018, Titans after 2019 and Bills after 2020.

          You like these results? Let’s keep Roman and Lamar and let’s keep rolling with our stellar wide receiver corps.

          This team can have Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, Cheetah and Diggs and still suck at passing because Roman will send them all in the same area of the field

          1. You coach to the talent you have and the capabilities of the players that you understand after watching them many hours in practice and meetings. There are a myriad of reasons why games turn out the way they do – missed assignments, turnovers just being a few of the examples. Fans like you have no way to understand what play was called, what were the assignments, and why the play broke down. You’re just JV football players with emotional takes, which is why coaches and players at the professional level dismiss your comments.

            Barb’s is going to be here because he just signed a contract extension. If you don’t like the way things are being run maybe you should find a better team.

                1. You intimated that Harbaugh wasn’t going anywhere because “he just signed a contract extension”, but that precedent was set when Bisciotti fired Billick mid-extended contract! So, that doesn’t necessarily protect his job!

                  1. Precedent means that something is identical in all respects. I’ve already pointed out that there is one major difference between the situations and there are many others. A characteristic of jv-1 thinking is that a person sees one thing in a complex situation and locks in in that as an explanation. It’s not really good critical thinking to be so simplistic.

                  1. Actually I am right. Billick was a coach hired by previous ownership that took a 13-3 team to a 5-11 record. Harbaugh has hired by current ownership with whom he has a 14 year relationship, who has already clinched a winning season, and may wind up going to the playoff. Need any more distinguishing factors? Friends don’t let friends do JV1 thinking.

            1. Signing a recent extension means NOTHING. You pride yourself in putting context and thoughts to your comments. Coaches often get fired the same year as their extension

100 Responses

  1. Must agree to disagree relative to WRs not wanting to play here! No better example than Hollywood Brown who insisted on getting out from under this antiquated system! And for the umpteenth time, the only times it changed during Harbaugh’s tenure was following the FORCED firing of Cameron and the hiring of Kubiak without Harbaugh’s consent! As inconvenient as it may be to your narrative, those are incontrovertible ….FACTS!

    1. I think it more than “the umpteenth time”. Way more!

      So I’m curious, what’s the “narrative” that you’ve referenced?

      And as for Marquise Brown, he asked out because he wanted to go to a team where he could make some splash plays; to be part of an offense that is more dynamic in order to give him an opportunity to make more money once he becomes a free agent. I don’t blame him and I commend EDC for getting a first-round pick for the malcontent. So far, it looks like it’s working out better for the Ravens now that the pick became Tyler Linderbaum.

      But if the Ravens move on from Roman, do you really think that the Ravens wouldn’t bring in an OC with a more accomplished aerial attack and that a top WR given such changes would not consider the Ravens if the money was right? That a top WR would block a trade to the Ravens? And then that if said new OC and WR landed here, it still would result in little to no change in the passing game because Harbaugh is the HC?

      And if your answer to all that is “Yes”, do you really think that Steve Bisciotti would stand by and casually allow it to happen?

      1. Tony, speaking of things Bischotti would allow… I remember very clearly, several years ago, after another one of our flameouts Bischotti saying ” won’t allow them to fail again”.

        What we’ve been doing for the last decade doesn’t qualify as ” failing”?

          1. Fair enough Tony, but this organization supposedly has one of the top coaches in the league. And every year we hear about how clever we are and how we outsmart everybody else in the draft. How we always find “abdolute steals” and get A++ grades. So either our drafts have been grossly overrated… or our coaching staff is grossly overrated.

      2. The narrative is that the Ravens need a big time WR to solve their passing problems! And, if Roman is fired, does Harbaugh hire another Cameron, Caldwell, Trestman, or Mornhinwhig because that’s his history?! This problem has persisted for a long time! And, how do you explain their hiring Kubiak without even consulting Harbaugh? Obviously, their confidence in his ability to hire a quality OC is questionable! So, again, we can disagree without being disagreeable…..

  2. The trade of Brown for the pick for Linderbaum has the potential to be a HOF trade for EDC. The rookie is really balling out and put the pedal to the medal on the Stillers short arms an all.

  3. Boy I pray 8 leaves this god forsaken team ASAP. Never would I have thought I’d see a fanbase subject they’re 25 year old MVP to this level of criticism while pacifying and discounting the myriad issues on this team that were present even before he got here. The continued trope that “they built the team around him”…BS, they built it around what JH was comfortable with, running the ball. Not seeing Lamar as the the generational talent that he is, merely a cog that would maximize their run scheme and hamstringing the growth of his passing chops (which was far fetched in itself, given the team ethos). The good thing, he is just 25 and has plenty of time to get with a Kevin O’Connell or Daboll or another bright minded coach that can grow what’s been seen in flashes with JAGs, also rans and camp cast offs this team calls a WR corp….and when it happens, I’m going to laugh at this organization so much.

  4. As much as a I hate to think about this -I think Lamar will win many super bowls with a coach like Belichek who just knows how to win. It’s the whole program with the QB as the spear. Belichek is a no fear coach – Harbs is a “what is the best I can get” coach. I think this a two way street. Sure Lamar will take the money but he will want a legacy and he isn’t going to build one here at this rate. He is going to have to make a choice as well.

  5. Jackson should have taken that 5 yr/250M (133 M gauranteed) contract offer. That offer will not improve, because his play on the field doesn’t warrant a better offer.

    Hell, for all we know, Jackson has already played himself out of that offer anyway.

    1. He deserves 30 million a year today. Tag him. Give him a true WR1 and a true WR 2, the same O line and RBs, an OC who knows something and you’ll know in one year if he’s worth more. I doubt it.

  6. Since 2008 the Ravens have had the 4th highest win percentage in the NFL, tied with the Saints. The other 4 teams above them all had first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Since 2008 only 2 teams have won multiple Super Bowls. The Ravens have had 1 and except for a unfortunate drop, could have competed for a second. Most cities can only wish for that that level of excellence. Many of us are happy to have an accomplished head coach, staff and front office as well as one of the best owners in the NFL

    1. Then be content when Lamar is playing somewhere else and BAL wind up in QB purgatory…this league is a QB driven, pass happy league. You got a guy and have mismanaged him. Period.

      1. Trust and believe, a team will give him. 3-4 year deal for 200+ after these next two tags…though I don’t even think it gets there. He will be asking for a trade after this year…

      2. So you’re not a Ravens fan, you’re a Lamar fan. Team will be fine. If they have to move away from Lamar, they’ll get a lot of compensation in the form of high draft picks. Not worried at all about one of the best run franchises in the NFL.

        1. whatever helps you sleep at night, but the fact remains. It’s a QB driven league no matter how good a team is. The Ravens are about to lose theirs, and a lot of fans like you dismissing that fact will probably have sellers remorse at that point. Book it.

          1. It’s easy to sleep at night if you don’t worry about what a 25-year-old might do with his life. If he’s here great, if he’s not the Ravens will still have a team and I’ll be a fan.

        2. Lamar had an incredible year in 2019 when he took the league by storm before his abysmal performance in the playoffs! Since then, he and the offense have regressed! Do you have an explanation?

          1. I have some thoughts. But not having the benefit of reviewing coach’s film, knowing the play book, seeing practice every day, attending meetings with the rest of the offensive staff, knowing how defenses adjusted to him, among many other things, they’d just be thoughts. Am I wrong to assume you think you have the definitive answer?

          2. Without accepting your premise I have thoughts. Things like retirement of a HOF right guard, injury to a premier left tackle, injuries to running backs, adjustments by defensive coordinator. But without watching film, being in attendance and practice everyday, speaking to the other members of the offensive staff, and a host of other pieces of information, they’re just thoughts. Why do I feel you have a definitive answer.

                  1. The Ravens record is publically recorded and forms a sound basis for my opinion that they are one of the best run franchises in the NFL. Since you’ve never provided a shred of evidence that you have the sort of backgound and access the things I’ve mentioned, it think it is clear your OPINION is not based on any substantial factual record and is unconvincing.

                    Have a great day and if the Ravens cause you such angst, maybe find another team that will make you happier.

                    1. What’s Harbaugh’s full playoff record and where is that stand among his peers? Opinions should be informed by all the facts. not just cherry picked facts

                    2. Now do Shula, Parcels, Landry. Harbs winning pct in playoff is HOF stuff. Cherry picking a coach with the best QB in history is JV1 stuff.

                    3. Again, you’re entitled to your opinion and, in mine, Harbaugh is not in their class unless you want to count his preseason record which he astonishingly takes pride in!

                    4. Opinions come in many forms. Some are based on incontrovertible facts. Others are based on incomplete knowledge and derived from emotion. Mine are the former yours are the latter. You are terribly unconvincing.

                    5. Most of the playoff wins were when he fired his OC for incompetence. Also he had a typical quarterback and three decent WRs. Since 2018 he has lost 3 and won 1 playoff game. All three playoff games were lost in the same fashion. 9 people in the box, stop the run, and let Greg Roman and a mediocre passer beat you with the passing game. Results sp3ak for themselves

                    6. You and Harbaugh can thank Joe Flacco for that! Flacco won in spite of Harbaugh, not because of him! And, following that spectacular SB MVP win, Harbaugh turned Flacco into “check down” Joe, just as he’s done with Lamar! The only exception was when the FO hired Kubiak and his assistants without Harbaugh’s input or approval and Flacco had his most productive season……ever!

                    7. Another JV1 comment . If something bad happens it’s the fault of the coaches. If something good happens it’s the superhuman efforts of the player overcoming bad coaching.

                    8. This bears repeating. I put more thought into my morning constitutional then you put into anything you said in this thread.

                      If this is your view of the Ravens you should find another team. It will likely be one that’s not in the top five winning percentage over the last 15 years.

                    9. To the contrary it refers to your uninformed, unsupported jv-1 comments. Harbs will be here because he just signed an extension. The Ravens will have a strong run game and a good defense. If you don’t like those things you should probably move on to a different team and save yourself all this mental torture

                    10. FACT: They’ve made the playoffs 4 times in the last 8 years and are 1-3! Not exactly a great record when it counts most! You’re entitled to your OPINION, but if I agreed with it, then we’d both be…..wrong!

                1. Have you been watching the ravens for the last 5 years. Used to be exciting and limited in the playoffs . Now it’s not even exciting and playoffs. Did you say playoffs

                    1. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

                    2. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

                    3. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

                    4. Well you have to win in the regular season before you get to the playoff. after that well ask Andy Reid who’s got one Super Bowl with the best quarterback, Aaron Rodgers who has got one Super Bowl, Drew Brees and Sean Payton who have won Super Bowl, etc

                    1. 0k pick one play from Saturday’s game with the Browns, tell me what plays were on the offensive game plan after discussion with the offensive staff and been worked on in practice. Then tell me what defense the browns were in and what personnel they had on the field, and what play you would have called?

                    2. Got to do well in the regular season to make the playoffs. After that, well ask Andy Reid how many Super Bowls has won with the best quarterback in the NFL, ask Aaron Rodgers how many super bowls he’s won, ask Drew Brees how many Super Bowls he won, etc

        3. I’m a die hard ravens fan. But I also see when talent is wasted. I hate seeing a talent like Lamar not get to a Super Bowl. And with this coaching staff he’s going nowhere

      3. Wasted 5 years of a cheap rookie contract MVP who can pass and run. Biggest waste of talent EVER in the NFL. If I’m Lamar I take a discount to go somewhere else (unless there is a change at OC)

    2. ill just assume you saw that Browns game, so I’ll let you stew on that well run organization and what Lamar means to it. Good day…

        1. You sound like Uncle Rico. Who cares what you did a decade ago. What are you doing now? I swear you old heads cling to the past so hard, the present and future smack you in the face and get completely lost.

            1. Guess what. I am a ravens fan and I like winning records but I hate losing in the playoffs and I hate wasting talent.

              Yes I compare the ravens to better teams, not perennial losers like the jets or the browns.

              Keep saying how good the ravens fans have it. Since the superbowl the only season when I thought we were going somewhere was 2014 (Kubiak, losing to the cheaters in the ALDG). Since then, we KNOW what we can do in the playoffs against teams that can put 14 or 17 points on us

        2. Since Lamar / Roman we are 0.25 in the playoffs with a c heap MVP on his rookie contract, an excellent O-line, an excellent run game and a very good defense (except last year with injuries). They wasted the rookie contract of Lamar by zagging with Roman instead of zigging with any OC who knows when and how to pass

          I don’t care about the regular season when we all know what happens if and when we get to the playoffs. 9 men in the box, game over. Happened against the chargers after 2018, Titans after 2019 and Bills after 2020.

          You like these results? Let’s keep Roman and Lamar and let’s keep rolling with our stellar wide receiver corps.

          This team can have Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, Cheetah and Diggs and still suck at passing because Roman will send them all in the same area of the field

          1. You coach to the talent you have and the capabilities of the players that you understand after watching them many hours in practice and meetings. There are a myriad of reasons why games turn out the way they do – missed assignments, turnovers just being a few of the examples. Fans like you have no way to understand what play was called, what were the assignments, and why the play broke down. You’re just JV football players with emotional takes, which is why coaches and players at the professional level dismiss your comments.

            Barb’s is going to be here because he just signed a contract extension. If you don’t like the way things are being run maybe you should find a better team.

                1. You intimated that Harbaugh wasn’t going anywhere because “he just signed a contract extension”, but that precedent was set when Bisciotti fired Billick mid-extended contract! So, that doesn’t necessarily protect his job!

                  1. Precedent means that something is identical in all respects. I’ve already pointed out that there is one major difference between the situations and there are many others. A characteristic of jv-1 thinking is that a person sees one thing in a complex situation and locks in in that as an explanation. It’s not really good critical thinking to be so simplistic.

                  1. Actually I am right. Billick was a coach hired by previous ownership that took a 13-3 team to a 5-11 record. Harbaugh has hired by current ownership with whom he has a 14 year relationship, who has already clinched a winning season, and may wind up going to the playoff. Need any more distinguishing factors? Friends don’t let friends do JV1 thinking.

            1. Signing a recent extension means NOTHING. You pride yourself in putting context and thoughts to your comments. Coaches often get fired the same year as their extension

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